Fuel economy=/=emissions
1982 allowed for a maximum of 1.7g/mi of NOx and didn’t measure NMOG at all. Tier 3 limits NOx+NMOG combined to a maximum of 0.16g/mi. Particulate matter went from 0.26g/mi to 0.003g/mi.
EPA to Propose Tougher Tailpipe-Emissions Standards
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1982 allowed for a maximum of 1.7g/mi of NOx and didn’t measure NMOG at all. Tier 3 limits NOx+NMOG combined to a maximum of 0.16g/mi. Particulate matter went from 0.26g/mi to 0.003g/mi.
Seems direct injected gas emits more PM, Wonder if this is a particulate filter mandate for DI gas engines?
The diesel Rabbits of that same time got over 50mpg, and today there’s not a single solely gas- or diesel-powered vehicle available for purchase that can get anywhere close to those numbers?
Progress? My gluteus maximus! “For the planet”? What a steaming pile of bovine feces!
If they ran on hydrogen then the only tailpipe emission would be water and whatever oil that managed to get into the combustion chamber getting burned off.
Might not even need a catalytic converter, and even on a cold start the emissions would be much lower than they are now.
Years ago, Pennzoil claimed that their GTL oils had clean burn technology. If engines were running on hydrogen then the government would probably be looking at how cleanly an oil for the engine burns off.
Wind turbine farms could power nearby electrolysis that made the hydrogen.
Refueling the vehicle would take just about the same amount of time that it takes to refuel a vehicle with gasoline nowadays.
I don't know about the safety of hydrogen storage on board motorized vehicles? But, if Vehicles become fully autonomous the accident rate may become less than 1/10,000 of the accident rates that we put up with nowadays.
Might not even need a catalytic converter, and even on a cold start the emissions would be much lower than they are now.
Years ago, Pennzoil claimed that their GTL oils had clean burn technology. If engines were running on hydrogen then the government would probably be looking at how cleanly an oil for the engine burns off.
Wind turbine farms could power nearby electrolysis that made the hydrogen.
Refueling the vehicle would take just about the same amount of time that it takes to refuel a vehicle with gasoline nowadays.
I don't know about the safety of hydrogen storage on board motorized vehicles? But, if Vehicles become fully autonomous the accident rate may become less than 1/10,000 of the accident rates that we put up with nowadays.
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Lots of econony cars back then could achieve high mpgs cruising on the highway yet had dirty tailpipe emissions by today's standards. It's like saying the VW TDIs folks delete the emissions systems from (DPF etc.) to achieve some impressive mpgs are good for the air you breathe (hint...they're not...DPF is very bad/carcingenic). One only need to look at the LA smog problem in the '70s and compare to today...vehicle emissions controls work. It's not about the planet its about you and the air you (and yours) breathe. I would agree we are likely on the diminishing returns portion of the curve and have likely achieved about what we can from ICE w/r to clean tailpipe emissions.
I remember having my car tested on the dyno with tailpipe probe when I lived there in the early '00s. Glad I live in the part of VA that doesn't require it.
It's not about clean air. It's about regulating internal combustion cars off the market and forcing people into electric cars.
Then they won't be able to drive the EV's because the power grid can't handle the extra burden.
Anything the government starts to regulate, they eventually kill.
Then they won't be able to drive the EV's because the power grid can't handle the extra burden.
Anything the government starts to regulate, they eventually kill.
Back when I had a TDi, I had one of the last ones to not have a DPF, and those guys were wondering if gassers would wind up with a PM filter too, as gassers were just going to DI at that time. Because of this issue. Which doesn’t seem to exist with PFI.
I wonder if dual injection systems could somehow skirt this? EPA is smarter than it used to be, that said, once they write the rules, the OEM could try to run PFI to avoid PM as much as possible, DI under WOT, whatever it takes to achieve whatever metrics it is trying to achieve (max hp, max mpg, meet EPA and CAFE regs, cost, etc). No small juggling act.
Trees need Co2 to live.
If I were a lithium battery maker, and had my choice of ore from the ground or some used-up battery just pulled from a dead EV, I expect I'd have an easier time reforming the existing battery.
Shoot, we do this with lead-acid batteries, and are able to do it with motor oil, though marketing has a hard time with that.
Since OP doesn't have actual numbers, this thread is an exercise in needless "sky is falling" predictions. I expect the numbers are planned in cahoots with the biggest automakers, desiring a barrier for entry against other startups.
I look at CO2 as the biggest threat, and we can reduce CO2 output by running leaner and making more NOx. NOx eventually breaks down, while CO2 is ever-increasing.
Shoot, we do this with lead-acid batteries, and are able to do it with motor oil, though marketing has a hard time with that.
Since OP doesn't have actual numbers, this thread is an exercise in needless "sky is falling" predictions. I expect the numbers are planned in cahoots with the biggest automakers, desiring a barrier for entry against other startups.
I look at CO2 as the biggest threat, and we can reduce CO2 output by running leaner and making more NOx. NOx eventually breaks down, while CO2 is ever-increasing.
Starting with raw materials is probably going to be easier and cheaper than disassembling and reprocessing the guts from thousands of cylindrical cells.
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I assume this was aimed at me.
I was a mechanic for 10 years, still hold 8 ASE Certifications.
I'm 39 BTW.
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Relevant parties know who they are
Keeping your certs
Very nice, just don't be the person who's having a 39th BDay for the 5th year running, just own 40
I'm 26, does the back pain get better or worse?
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I was born in 1983. I'll be 40 in December. Actually back issues was what caused me to stop wrenching. I'm a self employed electrician now.Relevant parties know who they are
Keeping your certs
Very nice, just don't be the person who's having a 39th BDay for the 5th year running, just own 40
I'm 26, does the back pain get better or worse?
Im well aware of how emissions systems work, and how some have been good and some bad for engine longevity and overall economy.
I just think it's funny how we had econoboxes 40 years ago whith economy numbers we can't get today due to many different reasons.
Those 80s Jetta/Rabbit diesels were very efficient
They were also slow, and those Passive belts weren't really gonna save you
Same thing for 90s Metros/Tercels/Escorts/Paseos/etc
The rose tinted specs make them seem so good, but they could barley get to highway speeds with the A/C on, were as rigid as a week old salad, and were comparative death traps if you crashed them
That single drivers airbag and strangle you passive belts weren't worth a damm, nevermind ABS was either a rare expensive option, or not available
Here's an old VW commercial to make my point
Now who really wants to daily drive to work a '71 Beetle these days?
Even with its adequate MPG and nominal ease of repair?
Any takers?
Now I wasn't around back then, but it doesn't seem much fun to pump the clutch, freeze without adequate heat, and wind up a quadriplegic in a mild accident over a few MPGs?
NOx turns into smog and acid rain. It also reacts with VOC’s to turn into ozone. I’ll take co2 over that.
But our goal as a species should be to reduce our output of both. NOx has more severe and immediate affects on us, while CO2 has longer term broader impacts on the climate as a whole.
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To quote myself,
I was speaking of a Mk1 1982 Jetta. That is a FWD water cooled, 5 speed vehicle. Inertia 3 point seatbelts.
No airbags, no ABS, and mechanical fuel injection. For the record it was actually pretty quick with 70 something horses and a mere 1800 lbs. 10 second 0-60 isn't that slow. Cars were lighter back then, that's really where the economy comes from. And a straight stoich 14.7:1 air/fuel mixture.
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The thing is that personal transportation is just a small piece of the pie....much smaller than we are led to believe as far as emissions go. Cars have been quite clean compared to other industries. But other industry isn't in the limelight of the media and the average consumer.
People only are taught that power plants and cars are dirty. Nevermind that barge that goes from LA to China bringing all that stuff we buy that was made in China in less than desirable conditions and with less than desirable emissions.....
And by strangle I mean add 10k to the cost all while reducing HP potential and the big one fuel economy potential.
But let's strangle cars even more, with the impending DPF on the direct-injected gasoline vehicles. We already have killed the diesel economy, so let's move onto gasoline. Then the EV will look even better.
0w5 oil, GDI, CVTs, and the same turd/blob looking shape as everyone else.
Yet....I was getting 35+ mpg on GASOLINE in a (then 25 year old) 1982 VW, and had many other 80s VWs which did the same or better.
I don't believe I'm wearing any rose colored glasses. I'm just saying we past the point of diminishing returns long ago.
Is it a bad thing that I have to raise prices because I can no longer violate the property rights of someone else?
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