EPA possibly goes after the Start/Stop System!
- Thread starter edyvw
- Start date
We have a 2016 Pilot. Start/stop was done pretty poorly on it.
I think my mom had an incident where it failed to restart at an intersection and she had to go through some process of putting it in park and trying to restart, while people were honking at her.
Honda had a TSB (23-008) -- not a recall, mind you! -- where they updated the idle stop so that it wouldn't activate with a weak battery.
Honda just settled a class-action lawsuit, I believe, and the NHTSA has expanded their investigation into it. Some owners complain the car will die at a stop and cannot be restarted without a jump start.
So if you are a Pilot owner from this era you might be pretty sour on start/stop. I have hybrids that of course kill the engine for low speeds, and I love it. And I would expect that systems with high-voltage starters or whatever might be more like our hybrids (excellent) and less like the Pilot (pretty bad).
I think my mom had an incident where it failed to restart at an intersection and she had to go through some process of putting it in park and trying to restart, while people were honking at her.
Honda had a TSB (23-008) -- not a recall, mind you! -- where they updated the idle stop so that it wouldn't activate with a weak battery.
Honda just settled a class-action lawsuit, I believe, and the NHTSA has expanded their investigation into it. Some owners complain the car will die at a stop and cannot be restarted without a jump start.
So if you are a Pilot owner from this era you might be pretty sour on start/stop. I have hybrids that of course kill the engine for low speeds, and I love it. And I would expect that systems with high-voltage starters or whatever might be more like our hybrids (excellent) and less like the Pilot (pretty bad).
There was a recent report and video on New Delhi air pollution and just wow! It looks like pictures of Pittsburgh in the 40s and 50s. Lots of respiratory problems and smog.
The start/stop has been around in the F150 for ten years. There are not reports of starters/motor mounts, etc., going out in any large numbers. Do they need a more robust battery? Sure.
Start/Stop saves fuel. It's basic physics.
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Kestas
Staff member
I don't see the benefit of start-stop for the average driver, unless they live in Manhattan, Tokyo, or some other congested city where the vehicle sees extended stops. I've seen the mechanism and it looks expensive. I'm guessing it costs $300 to $500 to manufacture. Including the additional weight, added vehicle complexity, and average cost of repair or replacement, I really doubt it saves that much in fuel over it's lifetime.
I understand the start-stop system was chiefly developed to help vehicles meet CAFE standards. The EPA city cycle for vehicles includes extended periods of stop. The start-stop mechanism helps automakers meet the CAFE standards.
Another example where CAFE is making driving more expensive for the average consumer is where automakers want to do away with 87 octane and force all cars to burn 91 octane. Premium is more expensive (28% more where I fill up), but it helps automakers meet CAFE numbers.
CAFE has turned into a beast of its own. We have become slaves to the almighty CAFE. It was intended to help the average consumer save gasoline, but it is often counterproductive with its mission to make driving cheaper for the average car owner.
I understand the start-stop system has a finite life, and after a number of cycles some vehicles have a counter that will tell you it's time to replace it.
Also, the start-stop system saves nothing if it is off for less than 7 seconds.
Because of public backlash from using this technology (many hate it), the EPA will eliminate incentives given to automakers using this technology.
I understand the start-stop system was chiefly developed to help vehicles meet CAFE standards. The EPA city cycle for vehicles includes extended periods of stop. The start-stop mechanism helps automakers meet the CAFE standards.
Another example where CAFE is making driving more expensive for the average consumer is where automakers want to do away with 87 octane and force all cars to burn 91 octane. Premium is more expensive (28% more where I fill up), but it helps automakers meet CAFE numbers.
CAFE has turned into a beast of its own. We have become slaves to the almighty CAFE. It was intended to help the average consumer save gasoline, but it is often counterproductive with its mission to make driving cheaper for the average car owner.
I understand the start-stop system has a finite life, and after a number of cycles some vehicles have a counter that will tell you it's time to replace it.
Also, the start-stop system saves nothing if it is off for less than 7 seconds.
Because of public backlash from using this technology (many hate it), the EPA will eliminate incentives given to automakers using this technology.
edyvw
$50 site donor 2025
But we keep remote starts at the same time?
Different brands have different issues around S/S system. There are reports of oil rings going bad, mounts, starters, batteries etc.
As for saving fuel. I ran Atlas with it and without it and could not see the difference. So it is a marginal gain. Edmunds argues at best 2.9%. At best.
You ae correct. Thanks for the correction!
There are always "reports". But they are not widespread. And we don't know the circumstances around the owner's care of said vehicle. And yes-some manufacturers do a much better job at S/S than others.
One just cannot argue that it doesn't save fuel-because it does. And yes those savings will again vary.
edyvw
$50 site donor 2025
I had a Car of the Future back in 1974.
Every time I stopped at a stop light, it stalled.
Every time I stopped at a stop light, it stalled.
Start/stop in hybrids is a given. It is not even called that and not really relevant here.
Yes. Carbutors- they either made the idle smooth or didnt work.
Where did the thread go? I was curious about this, myself.
They deleted it because no one said anything!
Also keeps intake and valves cleaner
Stop start increases wear. In the event of a holdup or something, that half second delay could be a game changer
Many people's reaction times are so poor the engine starting wouldn't even change anything
The best way to legitimize an irritant is to make it a feature.
As a cyclist, it's annoying to hear all these vehicles restarting at every intersection.
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