EPA possibly goes after the Start/Stop System!

[thastinger]

It's never truly been about emissions, money is what they are essentially after. Pay penalties and pollute away.

Concur, and all of the gov entities win with the fines because the cost of the fine gets passed along to the consumer in the final price of the vehicle. The sales price is higher, so the sales tax is more and the long-term personal property taxes will be higher.

 

[4WD]

To require ESS and allow remote start is one of the dumbest automotive contradictions ever.

Gives rise to the question of what’s dumber - especially if we stay off of oil viscosity LoL …

 

[SC Maintenance]

Does DI unlock increased fuel efficiency? As in all things, there are tradeoffs like the the NOx issues.

The best of all worlds is dual - Port plus DI.

Port is better fuel economy at idle and very low RPM / Load.

DI works better at load, etc.

Many OEM's now mix them - or at Least Toyota and Ford do.

 

[thastinger]

Indeed, preheating the engine electrically is not only more energy efficient but saves a ton of wear and tear on the engine, too.

If they really cared about the planet and emissions, instead of stupid start stop features, they would mandate high powered coolant heaters (1400w+) that can get coolant warm even in really cold temps. Put THOSE on a “remote and a timer. Then instead of idling and wasting fuel, you’d just go start a prewarmed engine and have instant heat as well as fewer emissions and less fuel wasted.

Where did the energy come from to heat the radiator water?

 

[Lockasiam]

there are tradeoffs like the the NOx issues.

and the carboned valves, and the fuel dilution, and engine lifespan. just seems like DI should stay in high performance cars, not your grandmas 4 banger 4qt of 0w20 Kia

 

[SC Maintenance]

So, I don’t think “majority “ of them is bypassed. On 2018-2023 VW’s it is super easy to bypass them with cable. 5min job. 2023 and after, you must shut it off using only screen. So I bet there is software workaround, but that makes it harder for average person. On 3rd and new generation Pilot, I think it is also just cable bypass. So, yeah some are easy, some not.
Problem with this is human nature. Most people are oblivious to issues around them. And one thing people really hate is someone telling them what to do. S/S from that standpoint is absolutely the worst solution bcs. it reminds people that government wants you to behave certain way. If they went either way electric heaters most people would never know.
Same policy thinkers who impose penalties on Colorado bcs. air pollution that comes from China via jet stream.

Leave the AC on. Some you only need the lights on. Unplug the hood latch on new Toyota's. Press the button in many. Most don't even need the defeat device, but those exist also.

So if even half get defeated one way or the other, then why give CAFE credit?

 

[edyvw]

Does DI unlock increased fuel efficiency? As in all things, there are tradeoffs like the the NOx issues.

NOx is directly related to lung disease. It does lower consumption, but adds slew of other issues. However, DI works quietly (sometimes) under the hood. People don’t know about it. It is easier to push those technologies if people don’t think you are coming after them. That was point I was trying to make. S/S reminds people every day that they have to swallow mandates. DI? They have no clue and they don’t care.

 

[edyvw]

Leave the AC on. Some you only need the lights on. Unplug the hood latch on new Toyota's. Press the button in many. Most don't even need the defeat device, but those exist also.

So if even half get defeated one way or the other, then why give CAFE credit?

I agree.
There are other ways to achieve mpg like electric heaters that would actually contribute to engine longevity, less fuel dilution etc.

 

[edyvw]

Where did the energy come from to heat the radiator water?

Do you think you will consume more fuel by heating up coolant? Also, faster warming engines, besides saving fuel, will eliminate some fuel dilution too.

 

[thastinger]

Do you think you will consume more fuel by heating up coolant? Also, faster warming engines, besides saving fuel, will eliminate some fuel dilution too.

Is the argument fuel consumption or carbon production?

 

[Lockasiam]

Where did the energy come from to heat the radiator water?

House

 

[edyvw]

Is the argument fuel consumption or carbon production?

they are correlated.

 

[brages]

I actually really struggle driving hybrids because the constant switching on and off of the engine really bothers me. Even driving at 70mph+ down the motorway, every time you lift off the throttle the engine shuts straight down, then as soon as you apply power again it fires back up again. I can't help but feel like it's not doing the engine any good.

That said, plenty of very high mileage hybrids about now and they've been around long enough to show it's really a non-issue. It just goes against everything I was taught.

I drive hybrids all the time and I now find the perceptible shifts of the 9-speed transmission on our ICE vehicle (which has start/stop) irritating.

My Accord is interesting because even on a perfectly level road, it will run the ICE and charge the battery, then kill the engine and run strictly EV until the battery gets down to a certain level, then fire up the ICE again. The transition is almost imperceptible.

Both my hybrids (3rd gen Prius, 2019 HAH) are around 250k miles and neither are oil burners.

 

[Pew]

Europe being more urban isn't much of an excuse for no transit within American cities. More high speed train connections between major metros in the US wouldn't hurt anyone either. Rails have lower maintenance costs than highways, less downtime, and gets more idiots off the road. Emphasis on the last bullet point

There was but quite a few things killed it.

1. After WW2 the USA invested heavily in the highway system, making vehicles the primary form of travel and goods transportation.
2. Corruption, bankruptcy, and merges of train companies.
3. Most tracks are owned by the freight companies.

 

[brages]

Rails have lower maintenance costs than highways, less downtime, and gets more idiots off the road. Emphasis on the last bullet point

I would rather have those idiots on the road than have to share a train car with them!

 

[Lockasiam]

train posts go in this thread https://bobistheoilguy.com/forums/threads/continuation-of-train-talk.395517/

 

[Blagoje]

Take into consideration there is a cottage industry of aftermarket solutions.
I had on VW Atlas reverse cable. Basically, you connect to the button. and then harness that was initially connected to button. Basically, it tells the ECU that you pressed the button to turn it off. If you press the button, it turns it on.
I mean, on long lights or train crossings, I would press it if we are talking several minutes.

This is what I would rather have, I don't care if my vehicle is equipped with this feature but I would like for it to be OFF by default instead of on by default. If I want to turn it on I will but I don't want to have to think about turning it off which I only do when it randomly shuts down the engine when I don't want it to. If I know I'm going to be at a long stop light I don't mind having ing it on at all but that seems to be more of a rare exception.

 

[CKN]

Kumbaya! I mean why should there mandated things? Like pollution control? And safety features? It just adds cost! Who needs ABS, energy absorbing bumpers, collapsible steering columns, Safety Glass! - I mean really!

Bring back the 1960s................

 

[chexxers]

KISS keep it simple stupid as one member noted!!! my 2011 fronty is as new as i go, fun ride is a 2001 audi TT225Q. tech has many benefits BUT many more DISADVANTAGES as well!!!

 

[tcp71]

So I think this is the key. The OEM's are getting benefit from the supposed CAFE benefit, when most users simply bypass the system anyway. They all have a button. I imagine most owners just press it. Or buy the aftermarket solution. Or detach the hood latch sensor. Or whatever.

So if its mostly being bypassed, why continue?

Because they know better than you what you need.