OK, I admit, I don't really snoop around in this section, but I came across this a few weeks ago and have been thinking. My new CRV has a timing chain inside the engine which get's bathed in engine oil, versus the Accord with the timing belt that doesn't. Now, I haven't yet taken any oil samples for the CRV but have plenty on the Accords. My question is this: since the timing chain is going to "work" the oil harder as compared to an engine without it, would I see a noticeable difference on the OCI's as compared to one without a timing chain? I'm thinking yes, but I also use Mobil 1 Extended Performance, or synthetics in general, stuff and I'm leaning towards the answer of no. I've had such good results with M1 on my other two Honda's, I'm kind of leaning to not taking samples and just run the CRV out to about 12-13K OCI's regardless, but the timing chain issue keeps coming to mind.
Engine oil OCI with timing chain vs. timing belt
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Originally Posted By: Schmoe
OK, I admit, I don't really snoop around in this section, but I came across this a few weeks ago and have been thinking. My new CRV has a timing chain inside the engine which get's bathed in engine oil, versus the Accord with the timing belt that doesn't. Now, I haven't yet taken any oil samples for the CRV but have plenty on the Accords. My question is this: since the timing chain is going to "work" the oil harder as compared to an engine without it, would I see a noticeable difference on the OCI's as compared to one without a timing chain? I'm thinking yes, but I also use Mobil 1 Extended Performance, or synthetics in general, stuff and I'm leaning towards the answer of no.
Ive never heard of that, id have to say No (When you ask if a Timing Chain will "Work" your Oil harder. Unless there is something i do not know, i would say "No that does not have anything to do with it.")
And not to rain on your parade, but im also reasonably certain that Timing Chains can, maybe not nearly as much as Belts but still can Snap or break. Sometimes people will see their engine is timed bya Chain and be happy "I never have to worry about the Timing Belt snapping i have a Chain" but sometimes, a Chain is not Bulletproof it may sna or be made to be Stressed to where it will jump a tooth or someting.
Correct me if i am wrong, but also in regards to your Oil question i do not think it makes a difference, your engine still has the same Spinning Inertia regardless.
OK, I admit, I don't really snoop around in this section, but I came across this a few weeks ago and have been thinking. My new CRV has a timing chain inside the engine which get's bathed in engine oil, versus the Accord with the timing belt that doesn't. Now, I haven't yet taken any oil samples for the CRV but have plenty on the Accords. My question is this: since the timing chain is going to "work" the oil harder as compared to an engine without it, would I see a noticeable difference on the OCI's as compared to one without a timing chain? I'm thinking yes, but I also use Mobil 1 Extended Performance, or synthetics in general, stuff and I'm leaning towards the answer of no.
Ive never heard of that, id have to say No (When you ask if a Timing Chain will "Work" your Oil harder. Unless there is something i do not know, i would say "No that does not have anything to do with it.")
And not to rain on your parade, but im also reasonably certain that Timing Chains can, maybe not nearly as much as Belts but still can Snap or break. Sometimes people will see their engine is timed bya Chain and be happy "I never have to worry about the Timing Belt snapping i have a Chain" but sometimes, a Chain is not Bulletproof it may sna or be made to be Stressed to where it will jump a tooth or someting.
Correct me if i am wrong, but also in regards to your Oil question i do not think it makes a difference, your engine still has the same Spinning Inertia regardless.
I would Look for good antifoam properties(yeah, how do you tell?!). Check UOA on Toyota Camry 2AZFE to get an idea how a chain engine does. The camry is worse with No rollers in the cam system using DOHC w/ direct inverted bucket tappets.
Originally Posted By: HomerJ5w40
... but im also reasonably certain that Timing Chains can, maybe not nearly as much as Belts but still can Snap or break. Sometimes people will see their engine is timed bya Chain and be happy "I never have to worry about the Timing Belt snapping i have a Chain" but sometimes, a Chain is not Bulletproof it may sna or be made to be Stressed to where it will jump a tooth or someting.
...
Problems with chains are usually associated with the molded resin guides and the tensioner. Certain synthetic oils would damage the guides. You will not see a chain engine "jump a tooth" unless the polymer gear overmold is worn or you ovverrev and hit a valve - then everything breaks.
... but im also reasonably certain that Timing Chains can, maybe not nearly as much as Belts but still can Snap or break. Sometimes people will see their engine is timed bya Chain and be happy "I never have to worry about the Timing Belt snapping i have a Chain" but sometimes, a Chain is not Bulletproof it may sna or be made to be Stressed to where it will jump a tooth or someting.
...
Problems with chains are usually associated with the molded resin guides and the tensioner. Certain synthetic oils would damage the guides. You will not see a chain engine "jump a tooth" unless the polymer gear overmold is worn or you ovverrev and hit a valve - then everything breaks.
Your theory is sound, but take a look at K series used oil analysis around here and you won't be too worried about it.
In general, a timing chain will last the life of the engine and a belt is a high maintenance item ($400-$600) even at the 105K replacement interval. However: a belt is quieter, uses less power and does absorb some valve gear shock, I'm told. I think there is no change in the oil change interval.
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Originally Posted By: Schmoe
In my experience, you can expect to get at least 200K with a chain. I'll replace it when it gets there, but I surely wouldn't take a belt out that far. However, I have some friends that have done that, but that's just not me.
Depends on the engine, I see them stretched and and worn out in as early as 80k on engines all the time.
In my experience, you can expect to get at least 200K with a chain. I'll replace it when it gets there, but I surely wouldn't take a belt out that far. However, I have some friends that have done that, but that's just not me.
Depends on the engine, I see them stretched and and worn out in as early as 80k on engines all the time.
Once in a while you might see an oil shear a little more because the engine has a chain, but it's usually not a problem at normal OCIs.
Originally Posted By: Eddie
In general, a timing chain will last the life of the engine and a belt is a high maintenance item ($400-$600) even at the 105K replacement interval. However: a belt is quieter, uses less power and does absorb some valve gear shock, I'm told. I think there is no change in the oil change interval.
I do darn near a timing chain a week. Todays engines are not like an old push rod engine where you have a cam gear and a crank gear and a chain. Todays chains have overhead cams, secondary timing chains, multiple tensioners, guides. I do go bad quite a bit, replace stretched changes and worn guids all the time.
In general, a timing chain will last the life of the engine and a belt is a high maintenance item ($400-$600) even at the 105K replacement interval. However: a belt is quieter, uses less power and does absorb some valve gear shock, I'm told. I think there is no change in the oil change interval.
I do darn near a timing chain a week. Todays engines are not like an old push rod engine where you have a cam gear and a crank gear and a chain. Todays chains have overhead cams, secondary timing chains, multiple tensioners, guides. I do go bad quite a bit, replace stretched changes and worn guids all the time.
I used to worry about chain vs belt. Now that I have owned a few German cars (for my wife), the timing belt replacement cost is no higher than other miscellaneous required maintenance. It is actually less than 80% of the repairs that have been required.
I typically run a vehicle 200K+ in about 5 years, I usually buy Toyotas or Nissans, except for 2 Mazda's. When timing belt change intervals were 60K, I would replace the belt almost annually and sell it around 220-240K needing a belt. Now that they are 90k+ intervals I typically change it once at 100K and then sell the vehicle at 200K. I do of course let the new owners know that they need the belt done. I can deal with one belt change through a vehicles life, but not 3+.
My only experience with chains in OHC engines has been in Nissans. I had a '95 Maxima SE and an '00 Maxima SE which I never touched other than starters, coils and O2 sensors. I currently have a G35 at 100K which has not yet had any mechanical issues other than a fan, brakes and all 4 wheel bearings. One of the reasons I purchased the Nissans in the pasts was due to them not requiring a belt change for my 200K use.
The only timing related problem I ever had was in a '91 Nissan 300ZX. It had a tensioner go bad at around 180K, I don't remember if that was a belt or chain.
I have always done the timing belts myself (except my wife's last audi), and I consider it to be a pain in the butt job - mostly due to the risk of engine damage if I do something wrong, and the fact that I can not afford to have my vehicle out of service for a day.
In every one of these vehicles I have run 7.5K - 10K OCI's using Mobil 1 with good results. I will typically get an oil analysis about every 60K and the results are always good. In my limited experience I have not seen so much of a difference between chain vs belt as much as some current motors seem to be harder on oil regardless of cam drive system.
The exceptions to that were my two Tundra 4.7l V8's (Belt) which could have probably run forever on the factory fill and my wife's current BMW (chain) - 14K OCIs and a clean engine work for me.
I typically run a vehicle 200K+ in about 5 years, I usually buy Toyotas or Nissans, except for 2 Mazda's. When timing belt change intervals were 60K, I would replace the belt almost annually and sell it around 220-240K needing a belt. Now that they are 90k+ intervals I typically change it once at 100K and then sell the vehicle at 200K. I do of course let the new owners know that they need the belt done. I can deal with one belt change through a vehicles life, but not 3+.
My only experience with chains in OHC engines has been in Nissans. I had a '95 Maxima SE and an '00 Maxima SE which I never touched other than starters, coils and O2 sensors. I currently have a G35 at 100K which has not yet had any mechanical issues other than a fan, brakes and all 4 wheel bearings. One of the reasons I purchased the Nissans in the pasts was due to them not requiring a belt change for my 200K use.
The only timing related problem I ever had was in a '91 Nissan 300ZX. It had a tensioner go bad at around 180K, I don't remember if that was a belt or chain.
I have always done the timing belts myself (except my wife's last audi), and I consider it to be a pain in the butt job - mostly due to the risk of engine damage if I do something wrong, and the fact that I can not afford to have my vehicle out of service for a day.
In every one of these vehicles I have run 7.5K - 10K OCI's using Mobil 1 with good results. I will typically get an oil analysis about every 60K and the results are always good. In my limited experience I have not seen so much of a difference between chain vs belt as much as some current motors seem to be harder on oil regardless of cam drive system.
The exceptions to that were my two Tundra 4.7l V8's (Belt) which could have probably run forever on the factory fill and my wife's current BMW (chain) - 14K OCIs and a clean engine work for me.
Chains and their gears chew up oil .
From a little to a lot.
They have to be harder on the oil than a system that does not have this internal stuff tearing and grinding..
From a little to a lot.
They have to be harder on the oil than a system that does not have this internal stuff tearing and grinding..
I'm not at the 40K a year mileage, but about half. Wow, I thought she drove a lot, 200K in 5 years.....Now that's some serious driving. Shearing is what I was looking for. Appreciate the reply's. Think I might go ahead and run it out to about 11-12K. The OLM is heading right towards 7500 OCI's and of course, it knows not what kind of oil you have in there. I did let it run down to about 20% with the factory fills as Honda is known for using a high moly. It was that dreaded 5W-20, stuff is like water. I know, I know....not starting the "thick vs. thin" thing, but it was also way darker than I like....I know....I know....I've been here long enough to know that color is not an indicator of performance. BUT, it didn't spread very far when I did the plotter test. I've got to get at least 210K out of this car and now with the wife starting radiation treatments, post lumpectomy, for 8 weeks, 5 days a week with about 80 mile drive one way, car is going to get a workout. Hey, I might just hit the 40K average this year.
Originally Posted By: mechtech2
Chains and their gears chew up oil .
From a little to a lot.
They have to be harder on the oil than a system that does not have this internal stuff tearing and grinding..
On my Fords no shearing at all according to the one UOA i did at 10K OCI.
Chains and their gears chew up oil .
From a little to a lot.
They have to be harder on the oil than a system that does not have this internal stuff tearing and grinding..
On my Fords no shearing at all according to the one UOA i did at 10K OCI.
Originally Posted By: Johnny248
Depends on the engine, I see them stretched and and worn out in as early as 80k on engines all the time.
That's why I like my Ford 300. No chains, no belts - just gear driven.
Depends on the engine, I see them stretched and and worn out in as early as 80k on engines all the time.
That's why I like my Ford 300. No chains, no belts - just gear driven.
Originally Posted By: Schmoe
... I've got to get at least 210K out of this car and now with the wife starting radiation treatments, post lumpectomy, for 8 weeks, 5 days a week with about 80 mile drive one way, car is going to get a workout.
I hope for good health for your wife, you and your family.
... I've got to get at least 210K out of this car and now with the wife starting radiation treatments, post lumpectomy, for 8 weeks, 5 days a week with about 80 mile drive one way, car is going to get a workout.
I hope for good health for your wife, you and your family.
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