Engine noise with Mobil 1

[cchase]

Originally Posted By: sangyup81
[This is what's going on with M1. M1 5w30 is the grade that is most sold in their lineup. If you are that company and you want to cut costs, you will do so on that grade and not the performance or fuel economy grades. The 5w30 isn't terrible by any means but it's ok or decent compared to other grades like 0w40 that are excellent and the AFE grades 0w30 and 0w20 that are really good.


Just curious but what information is out there to substantiate the claim that 0w40 and 0w30 are "better" than 5w30 and that Mobil has "cut costs" on the 5w30 at the expense of quality?

 

[sangyup81]

Originally Posted By: ARCOgraphite
Originally Posted By: AdRock

I've noticed that a lot of other people have noticed this also. Does anyone have any reasons why M1 seems to bring out so much noise?
....
Very simple: PAO base oil with low traction and low affinity will allow more racket. Again, PAO is a good cold flow fluid but NOT a great high lubricity lubricant. Also these synthetics are typ low viscosity EC oils in which just a 10cSt v a 12cSt oil at operating temp are very noticable on non-hydraulic lashed, cam-in head design. You may also have less resonance damping of rotating-harmonic systems. This is very basic stuff - not a mystery. You can get a similar effect with grpIII oils. The tribochemist has to work his/her magic and art to formulate a great lubricant. What is not completely understood is how the low zddp makes for a noisier engine. The thoughts are pointing to an increase in the "stick-slip" phenom. Also a lot of attentioned may be focused on passing or meeting API/ILSAC spec while disregarding on the road performance.


M1 5w30 is only 20%-30% PAO according to the Korean MSDS which is supposed to be the same oil sold here. This is where most of the complaints come from.

 

[sangyup81]

Originally Posted By: cchase
Originally Posted By: sangyup81
[This is what's going on with M1. M1 5w30 is the grade that is most sold in their lineup. If you are that company and you want to cut costs, you will do so on that grade and not the performance or fuel economy grades. The 5w30 isn't terrible by any means but it's ok or decent compared to other grades like 0w40 that are excellent and the AFE grades 0w30 and 0w20 that are really good.


Just curious but what information is out there to substantiate the claim that 0w40 and 0w30 are "better" than 5w30 and that Mobil has "cut costs" on the 5w30 at the expense of quality?


UOAs. For one, Iron numbers are much better on grades other than 5w30 and 10w30. The ESP and EP version of 5w30 is also much better

If you are not using the vanilla M1 5w30, don't worry about the noise complaints you read on the internet

 

[Hokiefyd]

I don't know why it made more noise in my '07 Chrysler T&C, it just did. This is the 3.8L OHV V-6 engine. I used the regular Mobil 1 5W-20. It made a lot of valvetrain noise at idle (sounded like lifters tapping). I considered bringing the van to the dealer for diagnosis, but figured I'd at least change the oil to something else first. I drained it out after about 1000 miles as I recall, and put in a different brand of 5W-20, and it was quiet again. I didn't even change the filter.

I don't know why the M1 made more noise, and honestly, I really don't care all that much. I just simply don't use it anymore. Other people with the same engine use Mobil 1 with good success. Maybe their engine doesn't make the noise, or maybe they don't hear it. Again, it really doesn't matter to me, I just choose to use the oil that keeps mine quiet.

 

[demarpaint]

Originally Posted By: AdRock

I've noticed that a lot of other people have noticed this also. Does anyone have any reasons why M1 seems to bring out so much noise?

I want to keep using the M1 EP that I use now but the valvetrain noise that I get with M1 really gets to me. It seems that others have had this same experience.

What's your take on this?


Certain oils cause noise in certain cars. The average person doesn't notice and doesn't care. What might be quiet to me could be loud and upsetting to you. Reading through 1000's of posts here, what I learned is this. Try something different until you feel you've found what works best for you. Don't get caught up in a brand, or what works well for someone else. Some of us change brands or grades of oil, others spend a lot of money on UOA's looking for the best numbers, then there are people who use additives to silence their engines. Oh and lets not forget the people who don't care at all.

Bottom line is this, if the noise is upsetting it is time for a change. If you really like the oil, and don't want to try something else then don't get hung up on the noise. JMO

 

[Johnny]

This is what's wrong with the internet.

Korean MSDS
Supposed to be the same here.

RUMORS, RUMORS, RUMORS, etc., etc., etc.

No wait, wrong choice of words here, ASSUMPTIONS, ASSUMPTIONS, ASSUMPTIONS.

There is ABSOLUTELY NOTHING wrong with the quality or performance with ANY of the Mobil 1 products.

Can anyone really seriously think ExxonMobil would cut the quality of their premier brand in the number one recommended viscosity sold in North America. PLEASE, GIVE ME A BREAK.

 

[calvinnnnnnnnn]

on my tsx with 0w-30, the engine was nosier and ran a bit rougher
PURRRSSSSS now

 

[sangyup81]

Originally Posted By: Johnny
This is what's wrong with the internet.

Korean MSDS
Supposed to be the same here.

RUMORS, RUMORS, RUMORS, etc., etc., etc.

No wait, wrong choice of words here, ASSUMPTIONS, ASSUMPTIONS, ASSUMPTIONS.

There is ABSOLUTELY NOTHING wrong with the quality or performance with ANY of the Mobil 1 products.

Can anyone really seriously think ExxonMobil would cut the quality of their premier brand in the number one recommended viscosity sold in North America. PLEASE, GIVE ME A BREAK.


Wait a sec, someone on BITOG called the M1 customer service and asked if the Korean M1 5w30 is the same as the one here and they got a definite yes. Would you believe this line of reasoning or the blind assumption that M1 5w30 has majority PAO basestock that I was answering?

The M1 cheapening out their 5w30 is just a theory. You don't have to believe it but the way companies have been behaving, you can't say this isn't at least plausible. I'm always careful to say M1 5w30 isn't a bad product but we can't ignore the UOAs that keep giving the regular M1 5w30 and the regular M1 10w30 higher iron counts than their other grades and other lineups of 5w30 and 10w30 like the EP and ESP lines as well as the regular 5w30 and 10w30 of competing oils.

The problem with oils we're having is a great lack of data and BITOG is certainly making a dent to that problem. People want to know which bottles on the oil shelves will be the best to buy. I wouldn't dare challenge someone who already knows what he/she wants but for the rest of them, I gladly share all that I know.

 

[sangyup81]

Originally Posted By: calvinnnnnnnnn
on my tsx with 0w-30, the engine was nosier and ran a bit rougher
PURRRSSSSS now


You switched from M1 0w30 AFE to M1 5w30?

According to your sig, you're using Valvoline Synpower, not plain M1 5w30.....

 

[bigmike]

Originally Posted By: AcuraTech
This has been talked about over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and overover and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over.

And the conclusion is: Nothing

 

[cchase]

Originally Posted By: sangyup81
The M1 cheapening out their 5w30 is just a theory. You don't have to believe it but the way companies have been behaving, you can't say this isn't at least plausible. I'm always careful to say M1 5w30 isn't a bad product but we can't ignore the UOAs that keep giving the regular M1 5w30 and the regular M1 10w30 higher iron counts than their other grades and other lineups of 5w30 and 10w30 like the EP and ESP lines as well as the regular 5w30 and 10w30 of competing oils.


A theory is just that, a theory. And there's no data that supports (that I've seen) the idea that the marginally higher iron counts in the M1 products result in higher wear in engines than UOA's showing lower iron counts. Or that it is any kind of "proof" that they are "cheapening" the product at the expense of quality.

 

[Johnny]

Unless someone on here knows (and I highly doubt it) what the additive package is in Mobil 1 5W-30, we will never know why the small increase in iron count on a cheap $20 UOA. That small meaningless number means absolutely nothing except to ignite a fire storm.

And no, I do not think for one minute it is plausible that ExxonMobil is doing anything to cheapen that product.

 

[Ben99GT]

Originally Posted By: demarpaint
My

. I ran Mobil 1 exclusively in my van for ~ 20 years. I decided to switch Dec 2008 because of some issues that were going on with M1 at the time, and their attitude in general toward customers. [No flame war please]. Anyway I switched to PP and noticed a quieter engine. I guess I grew accustomed to the sounds of the engine, and was pleasantly surprised at how much quieter the PP made it. Sometimes you won't notice a change until you make a change.

JMO


I had almost the exact same experience.

I noticed the improvement first with a Duratec 3.0L, then a 4.6 2V, then a 4.6 4V.

 

[tig1]

Every brand of oil discussed here on the rumor mill has had complants of engine noise. Just recently Synpower, Amsoil, QS, and PP have had engine noise comments. As for M1 5-30 being cheapened, tell that to Honda with the HTO spec.for their turbos.
I have friends that use M1 5-30 and have piled up hundreds of thousands of miles with OCIs from 8-15,000 mile OCIs.
Often what some think is internal engine noise is accessory noise of one kind or another. Try removeing the acc. belt and start the engine. You may be suprised at how quite an engine can be.

 

[Capa]

I'd like to state that I believe that Mobil makes some of the best (and possibly the best) synthetic oils. However, as several have stated, I switched from dino to Mobil 0W-30 AFE in both my Caravan (3.8 liter V6) and my GS 400 (4 liter V8) and immediately noticed some noise just at start-up. It's gone away now but it was there for about a month. I've heard that it might be "piston slap?"

 

[Ausfahrt]

Originally Posted By: ARCOgraphite
Again, PAO is a good cold flow fluid but NOT a great high lubricity lubricant.


Would you please give us an example of a good "high lubricity lubricant"?

 

[shpankey]

Originally Posted By: grease_monkey
when i switched to m1 my valve train noise did not really change at all, in fact if anything it got a little quieter, reduced oil consumption, increased gas mileage so far. This is on m1 0W30.

This is what I put in my wifes 2001 SUV and my daughters brand new ecotech Cobalt and both are super quiet and run absolutely GREAT.

Are there any UOA's on this oil b/c I think it's a really [censored] good oil. I put it in my daughters new Cobalt b/c it has the necessary GM high performance spec on it. The new one. Man this car runs good on this oil! I'm thinking the M1 0w-30 is kind of like their 0w-40, another top tier M1 oil.

 

[Durango]

Originally Posted By: AdRock

I've noticed that a lot of other people have noticed this also. Does anyone have any reasons why M1 seems to bring out so much noise?

I want to keep using the M1 EP that I use now but the valvetrain noise that I get with M1 really gets to me. It seems that others have had this same experience.

What's your take on this?


AdRock,

I use Mobil 1 in both my car/truck and only notice the usual morning "tappet tick" for about a minute when it sits for a long while. That's if your refering to that. It only last about a minute or so I don't worry about it unless it last for mabe 3 minutes!

If it worries you then maybe you can try Quaker State "Q" in your specified oil weight as I tried it and noticed it doesn't happen using this synthetic oil. Still I prefer M1 though

Durango

 

[2010_Colorado_V8]

Just changed my oil in 2010 V8 Colorado. Took out M1 5W30 and replaced with Royal Purple 5W30. There is a definate difference with the RP, much smoother and no clicking. I guess engines are about oil like people are about food. Some you like, some you don't.

 

[ARCOgraphite]

Originally Posted By: bigdreama
Originally Posted By: ARCOgraphite
Again, PAO is a good cold flow fluid but NOT a great high lubricity lubricant.


Would you please give us an example of a good "high lubricity lubricant"?

IN oils and fats: Certainly POE is easy to say, but would add certain cuts of grpI/II having a % of polar head "contaminants", beef tallow, castor bean oil, coconut oils. Sometimes the stuff you remove to increase VI for W service will have provided improved lubricity at running temps. You will see the premium PAO syn have % of POE and AN to solubilise organometallic added to restore lubricity. M1 0w-40 would be a good example. The requirement of extreme cold flow, low volatility and high VI will compromise high temp performance on all but SOTA basestock blends. The tribochemist/scientist artist must work their magic.