Engine blew up in the shop.

[SC Maintenance]

I agree. It was a no win situation out of the gate, and imo not the fault of the shop. Devil's advocate here: I would have explained to the customer it had nothing to do with any work the shop performed and stood firm. Had it gone to court I'd hope the people hearing the case have half a brain. The mileage on the vehicle and other evidence the shop could dig up should help, then hope for a ruling in the shop's favor and move on. If I lost I'd pay as per the ruling. As in life everything passes, and this too shall pass, including the bad PR no matter how it was handled.

Replacing the engine is not going to stop the average Joe from saying they blew up my engine and put a used engine in it, I'll never use them again. Or the possibility of the customer saying they did the right thing, but people hearing the story thinking they'd rather not take a chance dealing with that shop.

Yes, yours is the correct solution.

Still having grown up in a small town I completely understand the shop owner wanting to do right, which is why buying the car might work. Probably cheaper than the lawyers retainer.

Either way what there doing now is the absolute worst solution IMHO.

 

[Zee09]

So, it is settled - the shop is absorbing the cost of the engine and it's been ordered.

That is expensive for sure, but the best of the worst solutions. Sometimes, the best course of action (COA) is the one that has the least forseeable friction.

Dave's auto just had the same thing but with one of their engine builder's making the mistake. No warranty, but because of the issue, fully covered by the shop.

Even with disclaimers and bailments, the shop loses in the court of public opinion and that can be more costly in the long run.

I saw that Dave's auto episode
I wouldn't use them as it shows no oversight... they aren't cheap and no excuse for that blunder...

Just being honest.

 

[Hohn]

I agree. It was a no win situation out of the gate, and imo not the fault of the shop. Devil's advocate here: I would have explained to the customer it had nothing to do with any work the shop performed and stood firm. Had it gone to court I'd hope the people hearing the case have half a brain.

With my recent experience in the legal system-- at least in Cook County IL-- that hope is entirely unfounded.

 

[demarpaint]

Yes, yours is the correct solution.

Still having grown up in a small town I completely understand the shop owner wanting to do right, which is why buying the car might work. Probably cheaper than the lawyers retainer.

Either way what there doing now is the absolute worst solution IMHO.

Buying the car is interesting. Again Devil's advocate: No matter what they offer for the car may never be enough. Repair the engine, replace the engine, buy the car, free oil changes for life on another car, or anything else we can conjure up is an admission to guilt. Not good imo. The more I think about this the more I would dig in on my shop not doing anything that could have resulted in the 200K mile engine dying. Then the ball goes back to the owner, and I would go about my life waiting for a lawsuit that might never happen.

 

[Chris142]

So did the customer lose his mind when he got the news?

That I dont know. Im just reporting what's trickling down.

 

[demarpaint]

With my recent experience in the legal system-- at least in Cook County IL-- that hope is entirely unfounded.

Probably the same here, but I would be willing to take my chances. Worst case I lose and pay. Best case the owner realizes with 200K miles he might lose and doesn't pursue it at all.

 

[Chris142]

I appreciate the fact the shop is trying to goodwill the repair. However I wonder how the technician is being paid - if at all?

We are hourly. Not comission. We have a guy thats very good and fast at engine swaps. It will just be another day to him.

 

[D60]

Replacing the engine is not going to stop the average Joe from saying they blew up my engine and put a used engine in it, I'll never use them again. Or the possibility of the customer saying they did the right thing, but people hearing the story thinking they'd rather not take a chance dealing with that shop.

It's the ultimate "EVER SINCE" scenario.

The customer WILL tell the story and say, "They tried and replaced my engine, but ever since it starts hard on hot days, it clunks over big bumps and it pulls to the right."

 

[Zee09]

Too lazy to look for it but was an oil change on the ticket?

 

[SC Maintenance]

Buying the car is interesting. Again Devil's advocate: No matter what they offer for the car may never be enough. Repair the engine, replace the engine, buy the car, free oil changes for life on another car, or anything else we can conjure up is an admission to guilt. Not good imo. The more I think about this the more I would dig in on my shop not doing anything that could have resulted in the 200K mile engine dying. Then the ball goes back to the owner, and will I go about my life waiting for a lawsuit that might never happen.

Yes, I completely agree with you. Admitting guilt is absolutely the worst scenario.

Going to court is very expensive, for both parties. A new car would be cheaper than a lawyer for the other guy as well. It likely ends there.

I am sure its the bad press part that is the worry of the shop owner. I fear his current "fix" just made it worse.

 

[Kira]

IIRC, Chris142 works on some swank vehicles at that shop.
Is it in a swank neighborhood?
Does that imply well-to-do people with time to harpoon local businesses on social media whilst sipping their lattes?

I'd guess management assessed the anticipated echoes since they sought and ordered a relic engine.
NOTE: We all know just thinking about Ford's involvement with European marques is disgusting enough.

Wouldn't it be ironic if the mindset of this oasis leaned toward throwing that customer and his embarrassment of an aged Ford Jaguar out the door.
"I love the 'Apple Valley Garage' for the enemies they've made."

Maybe management stipulated that "ANOTHER RESURECTED CAR for ANOTHER EXTATIC CUSTOMER from A. V. GARAGE" be painted on the front doors?

Seriously, we don't even know what the parties agreed to. "We'll buy you an inspected engine to replace your 200k relic and you pay for installation and repair of anything else found while apart."

 

[SC Maintenance]

Seriously, we don't even know what the parties agreed to.

When have we ever let facts get in the way of a debate around here?

 

[D60]

Probably the same here, but I would be willing to take my chances. Worst case I lose and pay. Best case the owner realizes with 200K miles he might lose and doesn't pursue it at all.

You can call witnesses in small claims. Or at least you can in CO. Line up the guys who witnessed it and call a couple experts who can legitimately claim years of experience and present certs like ASE

Just like insurance, worst case you should be on the hook for book value of the car. It's going to cost the shop more than the value of the vehicle to swap the motor. Any "bad publicity" is going to happen either way.

 

[Zee09]

When have we ever let facts get in the way of a debate around here?

Facts are only important to those that possess them

 

[demarpaint]

Yes, I completely agree with you. Admitting guilt is absolutely the worst scenario.

Going to court is very expensive, for both parties. A new car would be cheaper than a lawyer for the other guy as well. It likely ends there.

I am sure its the bad press part that is the worry of the shop owner. I fear his current "fix" just made it worse.

You can call witnesses in small claims. Or at least you can in CO. Line up the guys who witnessed it and call a couple experts who can legitimately claim years of experience and present certs like ASE

Just like insurance, worst case you should be on the hook for book value of the car. It's going to cost the shop more than the value of the vehicle to swap the motor. Any "bad publicity" is going to happen either way.

We all seem to be on the same page. In a no win situation like this one, the name of the game is to get out of it in the least costly way possible. Then not admit guilt and move on. The Devil's advocate plays I mentioned by not doing anything could end up costing nothing at all. In a no win situation like this, it's a win of sorts. Bad PR that might result can't be stopped, no point losing money trying to stop something you can't.

 

[GON]

We all seem to be on the same page. In a no win situation like this one, the name of the game is to get out of it in the least costly way possible. Then not admit guilt and move on. The Devil's advocate plays I mentioned by not doing anything could end up costing nothing at all. In a no win situation like this, it's a win of sorts. Bad PR that might result can't be stopped, no point losing money trying to stop something you can't.

The question your post brings to mind, accurate or not, can a shop overcome negative reviews, negative PR?

Assuming the engine failed as a result of something outside of the work from this shop, is the shop investing in countering negative reviews/or a better investment than the lifetime liability of replacing the engine?

Supplemental - I have blown two automotive engines in my life. Both engines failed because of errors in my approach to solve a issue, neither engine failed at random.

 

[melk]

Google says its a 4.0L v8

Alright so it’s a AJ-V8 1996-2003 all-aluminum DOHC. assuming it’s the NA version and not Supercharged?

If it’s an early version (up to 2000) with the Nikasil bore lining, that is a known wear factor, well documented. Later blocks were steel sleeved.

 

[demarpaint]

The question your post brings to mind, accurate or not, can a shop overcome negative reviews, negative PR?

Assuming the engine failed as a result of something outside of the work from this shop, is the shop investing in countering negative reviews/or a better investment than the lifetime liability of replacing the engine?

Supplemental - I have blown two automotive engines in my life. Both engines failed because of errors in my approach to solve a issue, neither engine failed at random.

The negative reviews imo are coming no matter what. Lets look at this another way, if the shop has an impeccable reputation for quality work how much damage do you think one unhappy customer is going to cause? If the shop's work is that good and someone told me this story I might likely say the car was on borrowed time and unfortunately it died in the shop. If the shop feels this problem is going to put them out of business then their business wasn't that good to begin with. OTOH if they truly were to blame then doing the right thing may or may not help. Not to beat a dead horse, this is a no win situation imo. I already stated what I thought was the least costly way to play it.

 

[Passport1]

An early application of Occam's Razor to this incident would have been the most convincing explanation.

Wikipedia

 

[pbm]

Here is an AI generated (from Google) synopsis of that engines reliability:

4.0L & 4.2L (AJ26 / AJ27 / AJ34)
The earlier 4.0L versions—especially 1998–2001 models—suffered from premature wear on the primary timing chain tensioners and plastic chain guides, which can lead to catastrophic engine failure if the timing jumps. Jaguar updated to more robust guides in 2002, and the subsequent 4.2L engine is widely considered one of the most durable and trouble-free iterations of the AJ-V8 family