"Electric Cars Are Cleaner, Even When The Power Comes From Coal" -Forbes Mag

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Originally Posted by AC1DD
Fact is that the manufacturing of electric cars is much dirtier than ICE overall, and the rare metals which are in short supply and very toxic to boot. With current technology if the mfrs were going to sell in large volume they would run out of lithium and cobalt in a blink of an eye. Truth is that EV won't be a significant presence in the market especially in the USA for 50-100 years in the future.
Uh huh, and refineries + drilling + transport emits more pollution per gallon getting it to you as your car makes burning that gallon. The Aliso Canyon "spill" alone emitted more pollution in the air than the entire planet makes in a year due to it being methane+ VOC. Cradle to grave on gasoline is extremely eye opening. Fracking/ Drilling for fuel spills cadmium, arsenic, chromium VOC and more into higher levels into the ground which can leach into groundwater, 5% of oil is "spoilage" and doesn't make it from ground to your fuel pump, this loss could be in the ground, in water or in the form of VOC, or just simply spilled on accident losses like this apart of the cost of business and really haven't improved in recent years. Anyway, My BEV doesn't have any cobalt in the battery, All major manufacturers are reducing its use alongside pursuing cobalt free chemistries. Ex China has had lithium iron batteries for decades. Even lithium is on the table for reduction and removal . I do agree that EV won't be any significant presence for many years to come. When the title + registration is $665 for a BEV here but a truck is $85, you can buy an aweful lot of gas, my old Honda only burns $200/ year (and dropping) for fuel as a comparison. Doesn't make sense to own one in the current environment and a lot of people know it and are going back to a gas econobox from older plug ins and hybrids due to taxes alone. The sales metrics definitely show BEV sales starting to drop off year to year already in early 2019 and hybrid sales have been DOA since 2016.
 
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Originally Posted by JeffKeryk
Call BS if you wish Climate change is real. Listen to the science.
I would if there was real, unmanipulated science being dispensed to the public. Remember "Climategate" for one example? The "highly orchestrated, manufactured controversy"?? https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Climatic_Research_Unit_email_controversy Thats just one of a number of examples. Don't believe what is generated from a "study" whose sole aim is to prove a liberal political point. You own a Tesla, Jeff. Admit your view is biased.
 
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Originally Posted by gfh77665
I would if there was real, unmanipulated science being dispensed to the public. Remember "Climategate" for one example? The "highly orchestrated, manufactured controversy"?? https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Climatic_Research_Unit_email_controversy Thats just one of a number of examples. Don't believe what is generated from a "study" whose sole aim is to prove a liberal political point. You own a Tesla, Jeff. Admit your view is biased.
Yes I own a Tesla; I bought it because I wanted it. Teslas are a blast to drive, which is a requisite of all my cars. If I just wanted to go green, I could have bought a much cheaper car. If believing climate change is real is biased, then yes I am biased. And so is NASA. NASA gfh77665, can you provide me with a good article saying CC is not real? That would be interesting. I am open to learn new things. I am not sure what your point the link you posted supports; please clarify. It seems to support CC. Am I mistaken? Thanks in advance. Here's a shot of one of my gas hogs, an original L36 (427 390HP) 4 speed roadster.

68 shiny.jpg
 
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A quick google search will turn up more evidence of climate propaganda than you can ever read. Here is just one point to get started: The Global Warming / Climate Change Hoax: Fraud, Lies, Deception & Threats are the Tools of the Global Warming / Climate Change Hoax Folks https://www.amazon.com/Global-Warming-Climate-Change-Hoax-ebook/dp/B00JPU8332 Climate change has been around from the beginning of time. The climate has NEVER been static, and never will. Wipe the planet clean of all cars, industry, and even people for that matter, and the climate will still change, and will until the earth ends.
 
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Originally Posted by gfh77665
A quick google search will turn up more evidence of climate propaganda than you can ever read. Here is just one point to get started: The Global Warming / Climate Change Hoax: Fraud, Lies, Deception & Threats are the Tools of the Global Warming / Climate Change Hoax Folks https://www.amazon.com/Global-Warming-Climate-Change-Hoax-ebook/dp/B00JPU8332 Climate change has been around from the beginning of time. The climate has NEVER been static, and never will. Wipe the planet clean of all cars, industry, and even people for that matter, and the climate will still change, and will until the earth ends.
Your example is not scientific; it is opinion. It has a whopping 11 reviews and a couple pan it. The author is not even a scientist. Please show me a scientific study. Yes climate has always been changing and will continue to do so. That is not the scientific focus of "Climate Change", which refers to the rapid change in the earth's temperature as the result of human activity since about the mid 20th century. What do you think about the NASA evidence I posted? Directly from the NASA website: Scientific Consensus Ninety-seven percent of climate scientists agree that climate-warming trends over the past century are extremely likely due to human activities, and most of the leading scientific organizations worldwide have issued public statements endorsing this position.
 
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North Korea has a mountain of rare earth minerals and there was some talk of some near the Hudson Bay area but quite remote. It`s easier to make an argument for electric vehicles than against but I will not buy one until I can no longer drive and need a self driver.
 
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Originally Posted by JeffKeryk
What do you think about the NASA evidence I posted? Directly from the NASA website:
Q: What was NASA's mission until about 15 years ago? A: Space exploration Q: What is NASA's mission now? A: Environmental activism If NASA scientists don't toe the environmental line, they get fired, just like university researchers that disagree with the climate cult get shunned and then fired. You like Forbes? Try this one: Top 10 Global Warming Lies That May Shock You https://www.forbes.com/sites/jamest...ng-lies-that-may-shock-you/#2f4d5b7d53a5 There are tons more out there. Just look.
 
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Originally Posted by gfh77665
Originally Posted by JeffKeryk
What do you think about the NASA evidence I posted? Directly from the NASA website:
Q: What was NASA's mission until about 15 years ago? A: Space exploration Q: What is NASA's mission now? A: Environmental activism If NASA scientists don't toe the environmental line, they get fired, just like university researchers that disagree with the climate cult get shunned and then fired. You like Forbes? Try this one: Top 10 Global Warming Lies That May Shock You https://www.forbes.com/sites/jamest...ng-lies-that-may-shock-you/#2f4d5b7d53a5 There are tons more out there. Just look.
Just because a lot of people write things doesn't constitute truth, everyone has opinions
 
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Originally Posted by Rmay635703
When the title + registration is $665 for a BEV here but a truck is $85, you can buy an aweful lot of gas, my old Honda only burns $200/ year (and dropping) for fuel as a comparison. Doesn't make sense to own one in the current environment and a lot of people know it and are going back to a gas econobox from older plug ins and hybrids due to taxes alone. The sales metrics definitely show BEV sales starting to drop off year to year already in early 2019 and hybrid sales have been DOA since 2016.
Here's an interesting thought experiment. Let's just assume that registration for a gas version of a BEV is $85 (Same as the truck). So the state of Wisconsin is collecting from the BEV owner $580 in lost fuel tax revenue. How much gas is that? Wisconsin gas tax is 32.9 cents/gal which means that the premium of $580 paid for an EV registered in Wisconsin would equate to taxes collected on the purchase of 1,762 gallons of fuel. That would be 44,072 miles for a vehicle with a combined (city/Hwy) efficiency of 25 mpg. I'd say that the State of Wisconsin is coming out ahead on the registration fee for EV's. Hope you guys have some nice roadbed.
 
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Originally Posted by gfh77665
Originally Posted by JeffKeryk
What do you think about the NASA evidence I posted? Directly from the NASA website:
Q: What was NASA's mission until about 15 years ago? A: Space exploration Q: What is NASA's mission now? A: Environmental activism If NASA scientists don't toe the environmental line, they get fired, just like university researchers that disagree with the climate cult get shunned and then fired. You like Forbes? Try this one: Top 10 Global Warming Lies That May Shock You https://www.forbes.com/sites/jamest...ng-lies-that-may-shock-you/#2f4d5b7d53a5 There are tons more out there. Just look.
Yes. I like Forbes. The author is not a scientist; this article is opinion not science. It seems clear that we are coming from 2 distinct approaches. Good luck and I wish you the best.
 
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The US Department of Defense takes climate change seriously: https://partner-mco-archive.s3.amazonaws.com/client_files/1547826612.pdf " The effects of a changing climate are a national security issue with potential impacts to Department of Defense (DoD or the Department) missions, operational plans, and installations." And the highest revenue company in the US takes it seriously. https://corporate.walmart.com/globa...ations/reducing-greenhouse-gas-emissions And the 2nd highest does. https://corporate.exxonmobil.com/Energy-and-environment/Environmental-protection/Climate-change And the 3rd https://www.apple.com/environment/our-approach/ And the 5th https://www.npr.org/2020/02/17/8067...ht-climate-change-planets-biggest-threat Etc, etc, etc. But yeah, totally fake
 
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Originally Posted by gfh77665
Q: What was NASA's mission until about 15 years ago? A: Space exploration Q: What is NASA's mission now? A: Environmental activism If NASA scientists don't toe the environmental line, they get fired, just like university researchers that disagree with the climate cult get shunned and then fired.
So you don't think studying, researching, designing and manufacturing airplanes and spacecraft doesn't involve a deep knowledge of the atmosphere and weather? They've been doing it since 1915 when NASA started (NACA)
 
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There are 2 articles sourced from Forbes in this thread: the 1st is the basis for the original post and the 2nd is kinda different. What a coinkidink, as Curly might say. All good.
 
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