Education and do you want it?

[hattaresguy]

Originally Posted By: Astro14
Hatteresguy - As an American parent, I have to clarify/respond a bit on what you said...while there are a large number of foreign students...about 87-88% of Yale students are from the US. Yale doesn't publish demographics on race (that I can find) but they do have a diverse class...my daughter's friends are basically middle class kids from the US and a few foreign countries...some interesting demographics exist there, but it is a broad class that one thing in common: excellence. Every kid who is there has demonstrated true excellence in addition to academic achievement, just to gain admission...

One important statistic - over 70% of Yale students get financial aid...that's key: it's not just rich kids, not just the elite at Yale...you can get a feel for what it takes to get into Yale, as well as the richness and oportunity of a Yale education, by surfing through their site at http://admissions.yale.edu/home

And in the case of my kids, the "get rich" culture was never taught...one doesn't get rich serving in the Navy...but the values of personal integrity, academic achievement and hard work were taught...and, I hope, demonstrated by example...

And for the record, my daughter's goal is to be a doctor...not for prestige...but because it fascinates her...and it's her way to make a difference in the world...

I think the real test of a life, when you look back on it (and at my age, I have more to look back on now than I have to look forward to) is this: did I make a difference?


Excellent for your daughter, but were not discussing specific examples here.

Were discussing well known and widely talked about trends in American education.

My personal observation is that the higher up you get in education the more students from of Indian and Asian backgrounds you see. More so concentrated in the engineering and scientific fields.

This has been discussed at length in various education journals.

 

[CourierDriver]

Originally Posted By: Blaze
I remember when my wife came home after the first few day of school this past Sept (she teaches special needs) and the new foreign exchange student asked her why the other students were not studying during lunch hour.



Now that is an eye opener.

 

[GROUCHO MARX]

Originally Posted By: asiancivicmaniac
Originally Posted By: GROUCHO MARX
I know of a few parents who have Amerasian children soon to be college bound.

The children are told not to put "Asian" on their applications as there are quotas as to how many "Asians" will be accepted.

You must love how quota systems operate in this country.


I guess that would only work if they have an American name


Yep.

 

[OVERKILL]

Originally Posted By: hattaresguy
Originally Posted By: Astro14
Hatteresguy - As an American parent, I have to clarify/respond a bit on what you said...while there are a large number of foreign students...about 87-88% of Yale students are from the US. Yale doesn't publish demographics on race (that I can find) but they do have a diverse class...my daughter's friends are basically middle class kids from the US and a few foreign countries...some interesting demographics exist there, but it is a broad class that one thing in common: excellence. Every kid who is there has demonstrated true excellence in addition to academic achievement, just to gain admission...

One important statistic - over 70% of Yale students get financial aid...that's key: it's not just rich kids, not just the elite at Yale...you can get a feel for what it takes to get into Yale, as well as the richness and oportunity of a Yale education, by surfing through their site at http://admissions.yale.edu/home

And in the case of my kids, the "get rich" culture was never taught...one doesn't get rich serving in the Navy...but the values of personal integrity, academic achievement and hard work were taught...and, I hope, demonstrated by example...

And for the record, my daughter's goal is to be a doctor...not for prestige...but because it fascinates her...and it's her way to make a difference in the world...

I think the real test of a life, when you look back on it (and at my age, I have more to look back on now than I have to look forward to) is this: did I make a difference?


Excellent for your daughter, but were not discussing specific examples here.

Were discussing well known and widely talked about trends in American education.

My personal observation is that the higher up you get in education the more students from of Indian and Asian backgrounds you see. More so concentrated in the engineering and scientific fields.

This has been discussed at length in various education journals.


I work in healthcare. Those observations mirror what I see with regards to staff in these facilities.

 

[OtisBlkR1]

i live in a town of about 70,000 and my wife works in one of the two hospitals we have.. in her words "you can count on one hand how many american doctors we have"

i drive to a small practice outside of town with a 40's something american male doctor.. not becouse of his citizenship but because i can understand him clearly.

 

[Shannow]

hattaresguy and Astro 14,
I'm appreciative of your exchange, and to a dumb Aussie, I think you are both sort of on the same side, and arguing about the tonal qualities rather than the fundamentals.

Having seen many many engineering graduates over the last 20 years, there are some cultural differences, that may be good/bad etc.

In general, the Asians and Sub-Continent families view engineering as a worthy destination. They are proud to have an engineer in the family.

A lot of Aussies see engineering as the highest paying career that they can get with their High school results, and would do law/medicine if their results allowed it. When I chose engineering (during my gap year) 25+ years ago, my parents fielded questions on why, with my marks, I didn't choose law/medicine, two careers that I'd never entertain in a pink fit.

That thought process, however, leads to lackadaisical students, with mottos like "Ps make degrees", and "51% is wasted effort, 49% a wasted year".

The alternatives, the guys who chose it as a vocation rather than an option, are annoyed at the last 8-10% that they didn't grasp in University, as they feel that they've missed an opportunity.

Having seen that in my field, I don't ever want to be serviced by a doctor or lawyer whose approach was that's the most money he could get with his marks rather than their true calling...and conversely, I never want to be treated by some-one who used the "hive mind" method of "learning" that's apparent these days.

As parents, we need to make the quest for knowledge fun for our children, so that learning isn't a chore, it's a natural instinct. Leading a little troupe of 4 grade 1/2 kids through the Museum a few months ago, it was obvious that two of them had never been challenged by a non-teacher with "what causes that ?", "Why do you think ?"...the museum was simply another form of entertainment.

 

[wander2039]

Depends on where the family is from. Can't say the same thing about my inlaws from Laos'. My wife's friends though from Vietnamese is a different story.

 

[asiancivicmaniac]

When you come from a third world country where your predicament could have been very bleak, you cherish all the opportunities you are given to get far in life.

 

[PandaBear]

As an Asian who grew up partly in the US, I can tell you why from the 1st person point of view.

Starting from a lower end of the financial hierarchy, many Asian parents figure it is much lower risk to get their kids into a better lives by getting them to the best schools and the most stable careers. This means starting to cramp them since 1st grade by paying for the school district with good academic reputation. Locally you see school districts like Cupertino, Fremont, Homestead, Evergreen etc with 20%-30% higher price per sqft (and almost all Asian student poplulation) because the schools are more reputable for producing students with more ivy league admissions and scholarships.

On the other hand, Caucasians tend to pay for low density upscale housing with school district not famous for cramping students academically (Saratoga, Los Gatos, etc). If they can afford better schooling, they'll send them to private school instead (which surprisingly have not as good of a ranking as the public school districts mentioned above).

A lot of Asian parents do send their kids to law and medical schools, but that usually doesn't happen to the 1st generation immigrant children because 1) they may not be able to afford the $200k+ cost and they do not feel comfortable with student loan burdens for their children and most importantly 2) the language barriers are a lot higher if the children were not born or grow up in the US to enter law and medical schools. Engineering and sciences are still the lowest risk lowest cost way to guarantee a middle class lives, but you'll not make as much as lawyers and doctors for the same amount of hard work (no disrespect to lawyers and doctors). There are also glass ceilings and old boy clubs that aren't as welcome to the non Caucasians as engineering and sciences, as seen below.

Quote:
i live in a town of about 70,000 and my wife works in one of the two hospitals we have.. in her words "you can count on one hand how many american doctors we have"

i drive to a small practice outside of town with a 40's something american male doctor.. not becouse of his citizenship but because i can understand him clearly.


It is not that Asian parents don't want their kids to have fun growing up playing sports, blowing up toads, doing dramas, or working on cars, they just don't want to take any chance of lowing the probability of entering the best schools.

 

[Vikas]

I think most of the asian kids graduating from engnineering/medical/law today would be 2nd generation. Apart from their last name, they would come across like any other "real" American. For crying out loud, they are as American as any white skinned, blue eyed, blond haired "real" American. Kids who are born and raised here by immigrant parents don't have the accents.

Since we are on the topic of college education, my impression is that paying for your kids undergraduate education to the tune of quarter million dollar ($60K/year) for each kid is the norm for Asian parents. Most of them even pay for their graduate schools such as full medical/law schooling. I am not sure if this holds true for non Asian parents with similar demographics.

 

[Vikas]

Another thing which I have noted from being an Asian parent:- Unless the family is *extremely* rich (took his company public) the dad would does not buy a boat. Heck, he does not even buy a loaded F-150 for himself The family ends up putting all their spare money in to their children's education. In our circle of friends and family, nobody is making so called "boat payments". They most likely are not making the credit card payments either too.

We have some contributors to the forum who work in private aviation industry. I wonder what is their feeling about Asian high rollers. Do they spend their money on the plane and boats?

 

[HerrStig]

Originally Posted By: Turk
Originally Posted By: hattaresguy
Instead we pump out lawyers.


...and "Text-perts"

+ Investment bankers, "Policy makers", pointy headed bureaucrats, "safety Nazi's" and career politicians.

 

[HerrStig]

Originally Posted By: Vikas
Another thing which I have noted from being an Asian parent:- Unless the family is *extremely* rich (took his company public) the dad would does not buy a boat. Heck, he does not even buy a loaded F-150 for himself The family ends up putting all their spare money in to their children's education. In our circle of friends and family, nobody is making so called "boat payments". They most likely are not making the credit card payments either too.

We have some contributors to the forum who work in private aviation industry. I wonder what is their feeling about Asian high rollers. Do they spend their money on the plane and boats?
What astounds me are the number of people my age who got their college education paid for by their hard working parents, but who NOW say awwwwwww my kid'll get a LOAN. It's not as easy to put a college education on a credit card as it is to lease an SUV you could never afford to drive otherwise.

 

[Vikas]

To be fair to those parents, the college education costs have spiraled out in this generation. How many well to do families can afford to shell out quarter million per child? The family earnings have not gone up that much. Of course that excuse will NOT fly in our family

 

[Mamala Bay]

There is life smarts with value(know where weeds come from). For example an immigrant comes to Hawaii in the 70's sends her daughter to an all girl school so she doesn't play with boys. Daughter sees parents struggle grows up in an American environment. Father is a janitor, mother works at a bakery. Low paying job ... daughter loves her parents as they sacrifice bare bones...but life has more oportunity in America than in a third world country. They install strong values into their daughter.

Daughter gets her engineer degree at the University of Hawaii, applies for a position at Cisco and moves to California. She gets hired than she starts dating when she's financially set.

Gets married and she remembers her parents, sends monthly checks to make life easier in their retirement.