E85 is getting killed by low gas prices
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Growing corn, distilling alcohol and blending into fuel for gas cars was never a great idea. The government needs to retain clean air standards for gasoline, but forget about ethanol. It was a hoax.
Even at $.70 it was not worth it.
However I am finding that E15 or even E20 is worth it.
I wish the government would stop mandating how much oil based gasoline I can have.
If someone want to sell 50% ethanol...let them. Why should we have mandated 100% oil based gasoline for all these years.
The "mandates" for a certain ethanol % can be turned on it's head to a mandate for a certain oil based gasoline.
There is a major ethanol producer here in Iowa who advocated for eliminating all mandates. Ethanol can easily stand on its own if allowed.
problem is, that would make things difficult and uncertain for both sides. So he blocked.
It is what Ted Cruz proposed here in Iowa during the caucus. Trump went with the corrupt monopoly side of things (just the truth)
However I am finding that E15 or even E20 is worth it.
I wish the government would stop mandating how much oil based gasoline I can have.
If someone want to sell 50% ethanol...let them. Why should we have mandated 100% oil based gasoline for all these years.
The "mandates" for a certain ethanol % can be turned on it's head to a mandate for a certain oil based gasoline.
There is a major ethanol producer here in Iowa who advocated for eliminating all mandates. Ethanol can easily stand on its own if allowed.
problem is, that would make things difficult and uncertain for both sides. So he blocked.
It is what Ted Cruz proposed here in Iowa during the caucus. Trump went with the corrupt monopoly side of things (just the truth)
Whatever happened with Switchgrass?
The price difference between regular and 10% ethanol definitely makes it worth it here. We also have about a $.20 difference between e10 and e15 and that makes very little difference in fuel mileage for me. Worth it as well.
Ethanol in fuel ought to be abolished!!
Originally Posted by Pelican
Ethanol in fuel ought to be abolished!!
You are not much for free markets are you?
How about we open it up to the free market to whatever works?
I've got news for you, the refineries would still buy it. They need it to get the octane rating up and its the cheapest solutuon for that. Alkylate or iso-octane are too expensive and MTBE is banned.
The price difference between 87 octane regular and 87 octane with 10% ethanol is primarily due to how cheap ethanol is on comparison to other products. No it's not due to subsidies since there haven't been any ethanol subsidies since those ended back in 2012.
Ethanol in fuel ought to be abolished!!
You are not much for free markets are you?
How about we open it up to the free market to whatever works?
I've got news for you, the refineries would still buy it. They need it to get the octane rating up and its the cheapest solutuon for that. Alkylate or iso-octane are too expensive and MTBE is banned.
The price difference between 87 octane regular and 87 octane with 10% ethanol is primarily due to how cheap ethanol is on comparison to other products. No it's not due to subsidies since there haven't been any ethanol subsidies since those ended back in 2012.
Originally Posted by Iowegian
Originally Posted by Pelican
Ethanol in fuel ought to be abolished!!
You are not much for free markets are you?
How about we open it up to the free market to whatever works?
I've got news for you, the refineries would still buy it. They need it to get the octane rating up and its the cheapest solutuon for that. Alkylate or iso-octane are too expensive and MTBE is banned.
The price difference between 87 octane regular and 87 octane with 10% ethanol is primarily due to how cheap ethanol is on comparison to other products. No it's not due to subsidies since there haven't been any ethanol subsidies since those ended back in 2012.
Ethanol is there for one reason only, the corn belt vote! What it does to the engines that are not set up for it is very costly
Originally Posted by Pelican
Ethanol in fuel ought to be abolished!!
You are not much for free markets are you?
How about we open it up to the free market to whatever works?
I've got news for you, the refineries would still buy it. They need it to get the octane rating up and its the cheapest solutuon for that. Alkylate or iso-octane are too expensive and MTBE is banned.
The price difference between 87 octane regular and 87 octane with 10% ethanol is primarily due to how cheap ethanol is on comparison to other products. No it's not due to subsidies since there haven't been any ethanol subsidies since those ended back in 2012.
Ethanol is there for one reason only, the corn belt vote! What it does to the engines that are not set up for it is very costly
Originally Posted by pbm
Unfortunately, ethanol is used for fuel strictly for political reasons rather than for it's positive effects....
Exactly !!!
Unfortunately, ethanol is used for fuel strictly for political reasons rather than for it's positive effects....
Exactly !!!
Originally Posted by pbm
Unfortunately, ethanol is used for fuel strictly for political reasons rather than for it's positive effects....
Blending ethnol into gasoline has been used long before the government got involved. It was and is the cheapest alternative for increasing octane to prevent knock.
Unfortunately, ethanol is used for fuel strictly for political reasons rather than for it's positive effects....
Blending ethnol into gasoline has been used long before the government got involved. It was and is the cheapest alternative for increasing octane to prevent knock.
Originally Posted by Iowegian
Originally Posted by Pelican
Ethanol in fuel ought to be abolished!!
You are not much for free markets are you?
How about we open it up to the free market to whatever works?
I've got news for you, the refineries would still buy it. They need it to get the octane rating up and its the cheapest solutuon for that. Alkylate or iso-octane are too expensive and MTBE is banned.
The price difference between 87 octane regular and 87 octane with 10% ethanol is primarily due to how cheap ethanol is on comparison to other products. No it's not due to subsidies since there haven't been any ethanol subsidies since those ended back in 2012.
In the New York metro area, they do not allow the free market to sell us what we want to buy. E10 is mandated by law, no chance to purchase 100% gasoline.
Originally Posted by Pelican
Ethanol in fuel ought to be abolished!!
You are not much for free markets are you?
How about we open it up to the free market to whatever works?
I've got news for you, the refineries would still buy it. They need it to get the octane rating up and its the cheapest solutuon for that. Alkylate or iso-octane are too expensive and MTBE is banned.
The price difference between 87 octane regular and 87 octane with 10% ethanol is primarily due to how cheap ethanol is on comparison to other products. No it's not due to subsidies since there haven't been any ethanol subsidies since those ended back in 2012.
In the New York metro area, they do not allow the free market to sell us what we want to buy. E10 is mandated by law, no chance to purchase 100% gasoline.
Originally Posted by Pelican
Originally Posted by Iowegian
Originally Posted by Pelican
Ethanol in fuel ought to be abolished!!
You are not much for free markets are you?
How about we open it up to the free market to whatever works?
I've got news for you, the refineries would still buy it. They need it to get the octane rating up and its the cheapest solutuon for that. Alkylate or iso-octane are too expensive and MTBE is banned.
The price difference between 87 octane regular and 87 octane with 10% ethanol is primarily due to how cheap ethanol is on comparison to other products. No it's not due to subsidies since there haven't been any ethanol subsidies since those ended back in 2012.
Ethanol is there for one reason only, the corn belt vote! What it does to the engines that are not set up for it is very costly
.....so why don't we eliminate all mandates?
If a station wants to offer 40% ethanol, let them. If they want to offer no ethanol....let them.
What you want is government control and monopolies.
Originally Posted by Iowegian
Originally Posted by Pelican
Ethanol in fuel ought to be abolished!!
You are not much for free markets are you?
How about we open it up to the free market to whatever works?
I've got news for you, the refineries would still buy it. They need it to get the octane rating up and its the cheapest solutuon for that. Alkylate or iso-octane are too expensive and MTBE is banned.
The price difference between 87 octane regular and 87 octane with 10% ethanol is primarily due to how cheap ethanol is on comparison to other products. No it's not due to subsidies since there haven't been any ethanol subsidies since those ended back in 2012.
Ethanol is there for one reason only, the corn belt vote! What it does to the engines that are not set up for it is very costly
.....so why don't we eliminate all mandates?
If a station wants to offer 40% ethanol, let them. If they want to offer no ethanol....let them.
What you want is government control and monopolies.
Originally Posted by SeaJay
Originally Posted by Iowegian
Originally Posted by Pelican
Ethanol in fuel ought to be abolished!!
You are not much for free markets are you?
How about we open it up to the free market to whatever works?
I've got news for you, the refineries would still buy it. They need it to get the octane rating up and its the cheapest solutuon for that. Alkylate or iso-octane are too expensive and MTBE is banned.
The price difference between 87 octane regular and 87 octane with 10% ethanol is primarily due to how cheap ethanol is on comparison to other products. No it's not due to subsidies since there haven't been any ethanol subsidies since those ended back in 2012.
In the New York metro area, they do not allow the free market to sell us what we want to buy. E10 is mandated by law, no chance to purchase 100% gasoline.
Yes, lets get rid of that mandate and allow for "whatever".
Prior to the "ethanol mandate", we were mandated to purchase 100% gasoline-thank you oil lobby.
We still can't put our own blends in. If we do they will fine you thousands of dollars.
Originally Posted by Iowegian
Originally Posted by Pelican
Ethanol in fuel ought to be abolished!!
You are not much for free markets are you?
How about we open it up to the free market to whatever works?
I've got news for you, the refineries would still buy it. They need it to get the octane rating up and its the cheapest solutuon for that. Alkylate or iso-octane are too expensive and MTBE is banned.
The price difference between 87 octane regular and 87 octane with 10% ethanol is primarily due to how cheap ethanol is on comparison to other products. No it's not due to subsidies since there haven't been any ethanol subsidies since those ended back in 2012.
In the New York metro area, they do not allow the free market to sell us what we want to buy. E10 is mandated by law, no chance to purchase 100% gasoline.
Yes, lets get rid of that mandate and allow for "whatever".
Prior to the "ethanol mandate", we were mandated to purchase 100% gasoline-thank you oil lobby.
We still can't put our own blends in. If we do they will fine you thousands of dollars.
Originally Posted by Snagglefoot
Whatever happened with Switchgrass?
A lot of research has been completed on renewable cellulosic biofuel over the past few decades. The research cycles up and down as fuel supplies and prices fluctuate. The current glut of natural gas and low gasoline prices has shut off most of the research dollars to cellulosic biofuel research. I have been involved with wood biofuel research for 40 years. We were just ramping up research on wood torrefaction processes, then research dollars all but disappeared about 2 years ago. I'll be retired by the time the next research cycle escalates.
Some countries (Brazil, Europe) have working biofuel systems in place. In my opinion, cellulosic biofuel will never work in north America until fuel prices are consistently very high. The logistics and economics of cellulosic biofuel simply don't work at this time.
From this switch grass article: https://articles.extension.org/pages/26635/switchgrass-panicum-virgatum-for-biofuel-production
"the ethanol plant will use 95 semi loads of feedstock per day, requiring a semi to be unloaded every 15 minutes 24 hours per day, 7 days per week....There must be an available land base in the local agricultural landscape to produce feedstock......grown within a 25-mile radius of the bio-refinery, "
Whatever happened with Switchgrass?
A lot of research has been completed on renewable cellulosic biofuel over the past few decades. The research cycles up and down as fuel supplies and prices fluctuate. The current glut of natural gas and low gasoline prices has shut off most of the research dollars to cellulosic biofuel research. I have been involved with wood biofuel research for 40 years. We were just ramping up research on wood torrefaction processes, then research dollars all but disappeared about 2 years ago. I'll be retired by the time the next research cycle escalates.
Some countries (Brazil, Europe) have working biofuel systems in place. In my opinion, cellulosic biofuel will never work in north America until fuel prices are consistently very high. The logistics and economics of cellulosic biofuel simply don't work at this time.
From this switch grass article: https://articles.extension.org/pages/26635/switchgrass-panicum-virgatum-for-biofuel-production
"the ethanol plant will use 95 semi loads of feedstock per day, requiring a semi to be unloaded every 15 minutes 24 hours per day, 7 days per week....There must be an available land base in the local agricultural landscape to produce feedstock......grown within a 25-mile radius of the bio-refinery, "
Originally Posted by Pelican
Originally Posted by pbm
Unfortunately, ethanol is used for fuel strictly for political reasons rather than for it's positive effects....
Exactly !!!
Afraid you are right !
Originally Posted by pbm
Unfortunately, ethanol is used for fuel strictly for political reasons rather than for it's positive effects....
Exactly !!!
Afraid you are right !
Originally Posted by doitmyself
Originally Posted by Snagglefoot
Whatever happened with Switchgrass?
A lot of research has been completed on renewable cellulosic biofuel over the past few decades. The research cycles up and down as fuel supplies and prices fluctuate. The current glut of natural gas and low gasoline prices has shut off most of the research dollars to cellulosic biofuel research. I have been involved with wood biofuel research for 40 years. We were just ramping up research on wood torrefaction processes, then research dollars all but disappeared about 2 years ago. I'll be retired by the time the next research cycle escalates.
Some countries (Brazil, Europe) have working biofuel systems in place. In my opinion, cellulosic biofuel will never work in north America until fuel prices are consistently very high. The logistics and economics of cellulosic biofuel simply don't work at this time.
From this switch grass article: https://articles.extension.org/pages/26635/switchgrass-panicum-virgatum-for-biofuel-production
"the ethanol plant will use 95 semi loads of feedstock per day, requiring a semi to be unloaded every 15 minutes 24 hours per day, 7 days per week....There must be an available land base in the local agricultural landscape to produce feedstock......grown within a 25-mile radius of the bio-refinery, "
This is right by where I live.
https://www.google.com/amp/s/amp.desmoinesregister.com/amp/1938321002
DuPont bought out another company and then shut this plant down.
It was using corn stalks and rubish to produce ethanol.
Now a German company is buying it and pkans to produce natural gas.
Considering how cheap natural gas is, I don't know what they are thinking?
Suppose natural gas isn't that cheap by the time it get here through the pipelines?
Originally Posted by Snagglefoot
Whatever happened with Switchgrass?
A lot of research has been completed on renewable cellulosic biofuel over the past few decades. The research cycles up and down as fuel supplies and prices fluctuate. The current glut of natural gas and low gasoline prices has shut off most of the research dollars to cellulosic biofuel research. I have been involved with wood biofuel research for 40 years. We were just ramping up research on wood torrefaction processes, then research dollars all but disappeared about 2 years ago. I'll be retired by the time the next research cycle escalates.
Some countries (Brazil, Europe) have working biofuel systems in place. In my opinion, cellulosic biofuel will never work in north America until fuel prices are consistently very high. The logistics and economics of cellulosic biofuel simply don't work at this time.
From this switch grass article: https://articles.extension.org/pages/26635/switchgrass-panicum-virgatum-for-biofuel-production
"the ethanol plant will use 95 semi loads of feedstock per day, requiring a semi to be unloaded every 15 minutes 24 hours per day, 7 days per week....There must be an available land base in the local agricultural landscape to produce feedstock......grown within a 25-mile radius of the bio-refinery, "
This is right by where I live.
https://www.google.com/amp/s/amp.desmoinesregister.com/amp/1938321002
DuPont bought out another company and then shut this plant down.
It was using corn stalks and rubish to produce ethanol.
Now a German company is buying it and pkans to produce natural gas.
Considering how cheap natural gas is, I don't know what they are thinking?
Suppose natural gas isn't that cheap by the time it get here through the pipelines?
Last edited:
Originally Posted by SeaJay
In the New York metro area, they do not allow the free market to sell us what we want to buy. E10 is mandated by law, no chance to purchase 100% gasoline.
The State of Texas enacted similar legislation back in the early '00s that essentially forbade selling any non-ethanol blended gasoline in the 2 counties in which Dallas and Ft. Worth reside as well as any county that directly bordered them. The reasoning was that DFW Metroplex air pollution from automobile exhaust was becoming a health issue, and burning ethanol blended gasoline would mitigate that to some extent.
I do not know if that law is still on the books, but there is no non-ethanol blended fuel for sale here yet if it was rescinded, so I suspect it is. Besides, government is not known for its proactive actions, so I would be willing to bet it is still the law of the land here.
In the New York metro area, they do not allow the free market to sell us what we want to buy. E10 is mandated by law, no chance to purchase 100% gasoline.
The State of Texas enacted similar legislation back in the early '00s that essentially forbade selling any non-ethanol blended gasoline in the 2 counties in which Dallas and Ft. Worth reside as well as any county that directly bordered them. The reasoning was that DFW Metroplex air pollution from automobile exhaust was becoming a health issue, and burning ethanol blended gasoline would mitigate that to some extent.
I do not know if that law is still on the books, but there is no non-ethanol blended fuel for sale here yet if it was rescinded, so I suspect it is. Besides, government is not known for its proactive actions, so I would be willing to bet it is still the law of the land here.
Originally Posted by Donald
Growing corn, distilling alcohol and blending into fuel for gas cars was never a great idea. The government needs to retain clean air standards for gasoline, but forget about ethanol. It was a hoax.
It was highly pursued by the tree huggers and they grasped 1 or 2 university research that ethanol was good. After the feds and states passed laws requiring it, tree huggers backpedaled saying it released more greenhouse gasses into the atmosphere causing global warming. The feds won't kill that law because it makes the corporate corn farmers rich.
Growing corn, distilling alcohol and blending into fuel for gas cars was never a great idea. The government needs to retain clean air standards for gasoline, but forget about ethanol. It was a hoax.
It was highly pursued by the tree huggers and they grasped 1 or 2 university research that ethanol was good. After the feds and states passed laws requiring it, tree huggers backpedaled saying it released more greenhouse gasses into the atmosphere causing global warming. The feds won't kill that law because it makes the corporate corn farmers rich.
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