Help me decide. I need a good oil for MN winters. I am using Chevron now, but they changed there pour point to -33f. It used to be -44f. I was set on the Pennzoil, but saw that it shears down easily, but pours at -44f and pumps -6600 at -30c. The Durablend pours at -39c and pumps at 5400 at -30c.
Durablend or Pennzoil
- Thread starter JonS
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What is the cold crank on the Chevron. Personally, I put more importance on that number than the pour point numbers.
If I recall, Penzoil won't get exact on the their cold crank number - its just less than 6600 which is the minimum required to meet the 5w criteria. Makes it tougher to compare.
I've used the Durablend with mixed results. See my posts in the UOA section. Overall, it did its job, but was not up to longer interval use. A good oil if a 3,000 mile regimen is the ticket.
If I recall, Penzoil won't get exact on the their cold crank number - its just less than 6600 which is the minimum required to meet the 5w criteria. Makes it tougher to compare.
I've used the Durablend with mixed results. See my posts in the UOA section. Overall, it did its job, but was not up to longer interval use. A good oil if a 3,000 mile regimen is the ticket.
Well, based on the cold criteria alone, and not looking at anything else including synthetics, then the Durablend looks like a good comprimise (not the lowest pour point, but shows the lowest cold crank).
Just be prepared to pony up more for the Durablend then you would for the Chevron or Pennzoil. I used to be able to find it at around 1.50 a qt on sale, but more recently 2.00 a qt has been the best I've seen on sale. Wal-Mart has also been carrying it in the 5qt jugs for a good price, though I haven't shopped for it recently.
More or less, the boards opinion is to stay away from Valvoline. That is not the opinion I offer though. In all my Durablend runs I had very good wear, but the long term durability wasn't there - it sheared (though only went to 20w land once) and the TBN was usually shot in 4 to 5000 miles. Still reasonably priced considering it is a mostly Group III with some Group I or II mixed in, based on the MSDS.
Just be prepared to pony up more for the Durablend then you would for the Chevron or Pennzoil. I used to be able to find it at around 1.50 a qt on sale, but more recently 2.00 a qt has been the best I've seen on sale. Wal-Mart has also been carrying it in the 5qt jugs for a good price, though I haven't shopped for it recently.
More or less, the boards opinion is to stay away from Valvoline. That is not the opinion I offer though. In all my Durablend runs I had very good wear, but the long term durability wasn't there - it sheared (though only went to 20w land once) and the TBN was usually shot in 4 to 5000 miles. Still reasonably priced considering it is a mostly Group III with some Group I or II mixed in, based on the MSDS.
Blind brand loyalty - this board is anti-vavloline, thus the Penzoil choice.
Notice the lack of discussion on why it would be a better COLD WEATHER choice (or any other reason for that matter)
In general, based on UOA's, the Pennzoil has a better track record. Valvoline's is spottier and their non-use of moly in PCMO's earns the ire of many a poster on this board.
IMHO, the Valvoline Durablend did fine in my vehicles in the same climate. It just is not the best if extended intervals are your thing.
Notice the lack of discussion on why it would be a better COLD WEATHER choice (or any other reason for that matter)
In general, based on UOA's, the Pennzoil has a better track record. Valvoline's is spottier and their non-use of moly in PCMO's earns the ire of many a poster on this board.
IMHO, the Valvoline Durablend did fine in my vehicles in the same climate. It just is not the best if extended intervals are your thing.
"Blind brand loyalty - this board is anti-Valvoline, thus the Pennzoil choice."
Now, now MNgopher, there is nothing blind about my (our) loyalty(ies).
You ended up saying so yourself in that last post of yours. The loyalties here are usually well-earned.
In fact, I wasn't a fan of Pennzoil until about a year and a half, maybe two years ago. I'm actually a convert. And until Valvoline repeatedly lied to me, I was recommending their stuff.
Yes, Pennzoil 5W30 will shear out of grade after 3,000-4,000 miles (depending, depending), but so will most 5W30s, even synthetic blends.
I don't think much of Group III oils masquerading as synthetics (especially with the improved PAOs out there these days) so I just don't think the $2.25US per quart is really worth it.
What about the pour points of the Pennzoil blends? Are they comparable? Similar base oil groups as the Valvoline blend, but at least you have extra barrier wear if/when it does shear. It's not just a moly thing. According to Ed Hackett and others, Valvoline's additive package (ZDDP, mostly) has been generally on the skimpy side for a decade or more.
JonS, I take it you wouldn't consider the Schaeffer S7000 blend for $3 per quart? Royal Purple 5W30 is a blend ... but a pricey one. What about Mobil's blend's stats? I assume those have real PAOs in them ... but don't they also use a lot of Group I mineral?
--- Bror Jace
Now, now MNgopher, there is nothing blind about my (our) loyalty(ies).
In fact, I wasn't a fan of Pennzoil until about a year and a half, maybe two years ago. I'm actually a convert. And until Valvoline repeatedly lied to me, I was recommending their stuff.
Yes, Pennzoil 5W30 will shear out of grade after 3,000-4,000 miles (depending, depending), but so will most 5W30s, even synthetic blends.
I don't think much of Group III oils masquerading as synthetics (especially with the improved PAOs out there these days) so I just don't think the $2.25US per quart is really worth it.
What about the pour points of the Pennzoil blends? Are they comparable? Similar base oil groups as the Valvoline blend, but at least you have extra barrier wear if/when it does shear. It's not just a moly thing. According to Ed Hackett and others, Valvoline's additive package (ZDDP, mostly) has been generally on the skimpy side for a decade or more.
JonS, I take it you wouldn't consider the Schaeffer S7000 blend for $3 per quart? Royal Purple 5W30 is a blend ... but a pricey one. What about Mobil's blend's stats? I assume those have real PAOs in them ... but don't they also use a lot of Group I mineral?
--- Bror Jace
Bror - you have done a good job of explaining your reasoning. You are not who I cite when I say blind brand loyalty.
We have both looked at the same results and dawn different conclusions, and that is fine. I'm just pointing out others who have posted provide a simple answer with no details to back up their words.
Please, don't wag a finger in my face. Show me where I am wrong based on the posts above yours?
I see very little reasoning as to why it would be a better choice IF only the COLD WEATHER properties are important. Pennzoil has a poorer pour point than the Durablend and won't divulge its actual CCS numbers other than to say it meets the requirements of a 5w. Moreso, the cold crank results give no indication that Pennzoil is any better than the Chevron he is looking to change from.
[ September 04, 2003, 05:03 PM: Message edited by: MNgopher ]
We have both looked at the same results and dawn different conclusions, and that is fine. I'm just pointing out others who have posted provide a simple answer with no details to back up their words.
Please, don't wag a finger in my face. Show me where I am wrong based on the posts above yours?
[ September 04, 2003, 05:03 PM: Message edited by: MNgopher ]
I think if you look at the various posts on this board concerning both these oils, you will have all the details you need. Why should it be re-written again? It's not that we are blind, we have just 'done some homework' and believe we can justify our choice based on that, hence the reason for 'a simple answer'.
[ September 04, 2003, 05:03 PM: Message edited by: Tim H. ]
I would use Valvoline Durablend.
Why? 'cause of blind brand loyalty. I use it in both my vehicles. Works VERY well for my 3k changes and severe driving habits.
Why? 'cause of blind brand loyalty. I use it in both my vehicles. Works VERY well for my 3k changes and severe driving habits.
Another side of blind loyalty is simply sticking to something you haven't had problems with in the past. That way when you have problems, you have fewer variables to check out. I have though about dropping Pennzoil after using it for most of 30 years, but nothing I feel I can count on finding next year is enough cheaper. I am not switching to whatever is on sale cheap this month.
The Pennzoil...
I'll second that.
JonS Here is my recommendation. If you have been using Chevron and are happy with the service it has given you, stick with it.
Now naturally I use Pennzoil. It gets just as cold over hear in Wisconsin as it does in Minnesota and I have never had any problems starting my car on those cold winter mornings. And my car gets to set outside. My previous company car was a Pontiac with the 3.8 V-6 and I used Pennzoil 10W30 in it. My new Taraus with the 3.0 V-6 uses Pennzoil 5W20.
In the winter I change the oil between 3,500 and 4,000 miles, and in the warmer weather I change it at 5,000 miles.
Works for me.
By the way
I wish all you good folks in Minnesota would be kind to us cheese heads this year. Take it easy on the Packers and don't send so much of that cold wind over here.
Now naturally I use Pennzoil. It gets just as cold over hear in Wisconsin as it does in Minnesota and I have never had any problems starting my car on those cold winter mornings. And my car gets to set outside. My previous company car was a Pontiac with the 3.8 V-6 and I used Pennzoil 10W30 in it. My new Taraus with the 3.0 V-6 uses Pennzoil 5W20.
In the winter I change the oil between 3,500 and 4,000 miles, and in the warmer weather I change it at 5,000 miles.
Works for me.
By the way
Johnny - sounds like good solid advice.
Any of the oils you've mentioned - Chevron, Pennzoil, and the Durablend, will work fine. Looking exclusively at the cold weather properties, I would be inclined to select the Durablend. (I'm not a fan of the All-Climate lineup, due to the low additive levels as mentioned by others in this thread. I don't feel this is a problem with the Durablend product. Others may disagree, and thats OK. I've used and analyzed both, and thats my opinion)
It will be interesting how the first game of the season goes! Go Vikes!
Any of the oils you've mentioned - Chevron, Pennzoil, and the Durablend, will work fine. Looking exclusively at the cold weather properties, I would be inclined to select the Durablend. (I'm not a fan of the All-Climate lineup, due to the low additive levels as mentioned by others in this thread. I don't feel this is a problem with the Durablend product. Others may disagree, and thats OK. I've used and analyzed both, and thats my opinion)
It will be interesting how the first game of the season goes! Go Vikes!
Did someone just ring a bell? I had an overwhelming urge to go buy a case of valvoline.
Since the price of Mobil 1 went up to 4.27 (from 3.32), my last oil change I went and purchased the 5W30 Pennzoil (now my oil pressure is up slightly over the 10W30 Mobil 1, and mpg up just a little).
I used Pennzoil exclusively when I lived in Virginia in the 80's before moving up to Minnesota in 89.
Two weeks a go I called Pennzoil tech and asked about the specific numbers ASTM D-5293 6600 @ -30, he said he did not know, so he switched me to a Chemist tech who he said would know that stuff.
The fellow was not in so I got his answering machine and I figured that was the end of that.
A couple of days into the following week the Chemist returns my call and takes the time to answer my questions (INTELLIGENTLY) and was very helpful and informative; took about 20 minutes with me.
He said that number is the ASTM spech number for all 5W, he said Pennzoil 5W30 was in the high 5400's at -30, and the pumpability was right at -35.
So far I am happy I made the switch, and my 93 Pontiac Grand Prix seems to like it also.
I know many folks up here in northern Minnesota that use a 5W30 or 10W30 regular oil (various brands) with no problems in the winter or summer.
The Mobil 1 I changed at 7,000 so I will just keep my eye on this and see if I am going to change at 3,000 or 5,000. I do not mind changing it since I have a garage and the quick drain plug.
Good Day,
Steven
I used Pennzoil exclusively when I lived in Virginia in the 80's before moving up to Minnesota in 89.
Two weeks a go I called Pennzoil tech and asked about the specific numbers ASTM D-5293 6600 @ -30, he said he did not know, so he switched me to a Chemist tech who he said would know that stuff.
The fellow was not in so I got his answering machine and I figured that was the end of that.
A couple of days into the following week the Chemist returns my call and takes the time to answer my questions (INTELLIGENTLY) and was very helpful and informative; took about 20 minutes with me.
He said that number is the ASTM spech number for all 5W, he said Pennzoil 5W30 was in the high 5400's at -30, and the pumpability was right at -35.
So far I am happy I made the switch, and my 93 Pontiac Grand Prix seems to like it also.
I know many folks up here in northern Minnesota that use a 5W30 or 10W30 regular oil (various brands) with no problems in the winter or summer.
The Mobil 1 I changed at 7,000 so I will just keep my eye on this and see if I am going to change at 3,000 or 5,000. I do not mind changing it since I have a garage and the quick drain plug.
Good Day,
Steven
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