Dumbing up of Automobiles

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Originally Posted By: OVERK1LL
I prefer climate control. I never have to touch anything on the Expedition or BMW, they are both just on Auto and function just fine


Yep, I wouldn't want a new vehicle without it. The 1990 Town Car, the 1991 Audi, and my G all had it. It's nice to not have to mess with it at all.
 
Originally Posted By: itguy08
Originally Posted By: eljefino
The automatic AC bugs me more than most stuff. MPG and performance drag. Most other gadgets don't do that.


Negligible to no MPG penalty with a modern demand based AC system. No performance penalty as all within the last, say 20 years disengage at WOT or close to it.


You notice the performance and MPG in a 100 hp saturn.
lol.gif


Mine cuts out at WOT, but it's sudden and non linear and well, annoying. Plus I have to run WOT to cut it out, when I'd rather run 2/3 throttle so I don't get enrichment.

Then you've got the "why is my parked car losing liquid" factor, if the AC came on and I didn't even know it.
 
Originally Posted By: Spazdog

Remember '70s Fords? The headlight switch, wiper switch, and cigarette lighter were all the same size, often very close to each other.

One had a 33% chance of success when reaching for the wipers in the dark


My dad's 1980 Fairmont you had to push in on the turn signal stalk to get the horn! If you forgot and whacked the middle of the steering wheel, the 5 cent "Fairmont Family Heraldic Crest" trim piece would pop off and fall in your lap.
 
Originally Posted By: Garak
Originally Posted By: OVERK1LL
I prefer climate control. I never have to touch anything on the Expedition or BMW, they are both just on Auto and function just fine


Yep, I wouldn't want a new vehicle without it. The 1990 Town Car, the 1991 Audi, and my G all had it. It's nice to not have to mess with it at all.


Some mfgr's have it worked out quite well. My cars CC has an infra red sensor and has very accurate temp control. Plus it has a compressor button so you don't have to run it in the winter. Factor in the wifey can set her side up her way, gosh I don't think any husband would want to be without it!
 
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One car has dials for the HVAC, the other has dials and push-buttons. The push-buttons and fan selector dial show confirmation of the choice on the high-mounted radio screen. Sort of nice.

Both cars also chime incessantly when the parking brake is applied when the car's in motion. No, darn it, I want to do donuts in this snowy lot!!!
 
Originally Posted By: eljefino
Originally Posted By: itguy08
Originally Posted By: eljefino
The automatic AC bugs me more than most stuff. MPG and performance drag. Most other gadgets don't do that.


Negligible to no MPG penalty with a modern demand based AC system. No performance penalty as all within the last, say 20 years disengage at WOT or close to it.


You notice the performance and MPG in a 100 hp saturn.
lol.gif


Mine cuts out at WOT, but it's sudden and non linear and well, annoying. Plus I have to run WOT to cut it out, when I'd rather run 2/3 throttle so I don't get enrichment.

Then you've got the "why is my parked car losing liquid" factor, if the AC came on and I didn't even know it.


Same with my low-displacement GM car. It's fine for power when the turbo kicks in, but when the turbo's not spooled it's a 80 hp 1.4l engine trying to cool and move a 3000 lb car, and boy is it obvious!
 
Originally Posted By: eljefino


You notice the performance and MPG in a 100 hp saturn.
lol.gif


Mine cuts out at WOT, but it's sudden and non linear and well, annoying. Plus I have to run WOT to cut it out, when I'd rather run 2/3 throttle so I don't get enrichment.

Then you've got the "why is my parked car losing liquid" factor, if the AC came on and I didn't even know it.


I never noticed it much in my 86 Mustang with the blistering 88hp 2.3l.
smile.gif
Then again that throttle had 2 positions - WOT and idle.
smile.gif


I don't remember noticing it in my wofe's old Escort or the smaller rentals I've had.
 
I have no problem with technology if it increases dependability, but I despise anything that already takes a rather incompetent motorist and distracts them from the obligation to actively, safely drive their vehicle. The drivers' focus should be on driving, and nothing else.

Touchscreens, cell phones and other shiny baubles all have their place, just not in a place that will distract a driver, who is not only responsible for their own safety but the safety of others on the road.

I'm sure there are plenty who have foolishly bought into the notion that they are competent enough to drive and play with their techno toys at the same time, but study after study clearly shows that they are just as distracted as a teenage girl texting or a drunk driver. The consequences of people playing with techno toys while behind the wheel can be devastating, not only to themselves but to another completely innocent person/family. It's not something I'd want on my conscience.
 
In the old days the HVAC controls were often to the left of the steering wheel so anyone else in the car had to beg the driver to adjust the heat.

Then they moved 'em to the center pod where either front seat occupant could handle them.

Now they're so goofy you need someone riding shotgun just to work the things. You have to ask them for less heat.

Yeah, it takes control away from the driver.
wink.gif
 
I hate automatic headlights. Too many morons driving around with them. If it's dawn or dusk--turn 'em on! Or just leave the headlights on. The rest of us would like to see you on dim/dark/overcast/rainy days. Or on overly bright conditions, like when driving into the sun. If we have to have a seatbelt chime, why not chime for the headlights?

I've never had automatic climate control. I usually set the heat to roast in the winter, and after 10-20 miles I start turning it down. It takes a long time for ~25F interior to warm up. You can feel the rest of the car sucking the heat out of the air. After an hour or so is when I start oscillating, and unable to find the right temperature. I think it's because it's blowing air onto me, so I'm turning it down--but the rest of the car is bleeding off heat. No idea if climate control would deal with that better.

I hate the seatbelt chime. My VW is obnoxious. There are times when I am backing up a trailer that I might be popping in and out of the car, or swiveled all the way around. Do I really need a seatbelt on while I'm crawling around my backyard at 3mph? If I park the car and run into Dunkin' Doughnuts, and leave the car running so no one freezes, the stupid chime will go off every so often. Wifey winds up having to reach over to buckle up an empty seat.

Another gripe: windshield washers. Why can't the washer be a button like it used to? Used to be you could time hitting the button just right--and get precisely the number of passes from the blades. No more. It always wipes one time too many.

I have to admit, I like power locks and windows; and I do like auto up/down. Auto up/down is one of the great inventions, if you ask me (although I use it less now that we have EZPass). Power mirrors are nice too. The LATCH setup for kid seats is good. I suppose cars that crumple around is good, as is airbags, again to mitigate injuries. ABS, VSC, etc -- I won't say technology is all bad. If anything, it's annoying when they botch up the simple stuff.
 
Originally Posted By: JamesBond
Originally Posted By: Doog
Originally Posted By: ClutchDisc

Who needs power windows or power door locks? You don't have them on your house do you?


Yes, getting a power schlage deadbolt I can close by computer remote control from my office in case I have to let a cleaner or repair man in then auto lock the door and delete his 5 digit combination. Cost: $168. If my family locks themselves out they can call me at the office and I can let them in.

Kind of funny that all of the people who hate new technology live in Detroit. Maybe that is a sign of why the US auto industry needed bailing out.


Can you also lock them in? If so, this is some interesting technology. This, coupled with an automated home surveillance system has blockbuster horror movie franchise written all over it.


No there is still a manual handle on the inside of the deadbolt.
 
Originally Posted By: supton
I hate automatic headlights. Too many morons driving around with them. If it's dawn or dusk--turn 'em on! Or just leave the headlights on. The rest of us would like to see you on dim/dark/overcast/rainy days. Or on overly bright conditions, like when driving into the sun. If we have to have a seatbelt chime, why not chime for the headlights?

I've never had automatic climate control. I usually set the heat to roast in the winter, and after 10-20 miles I start turning it down. It takes a long time for ~25F interior to warm up. You can feel the rest of the car sucking the heat out of the air. After an hour or so is when I start oscillating, and unable to find the right temperature. I think it's because it's blowing air onto me, so I'm turning it down--but the rest of the car is bleeding off heat. No idea if climate control would deal with that better.

I hate the seatbelt chime. My VW is obnoxious. There are times when I am backing up a trailer that I might be popping in and out of the car, or swiveled all the way around. Do I really need a seatbelt on while I'm crawling around my backyard at 3mph? If I park the car and run into Dunkin' Doughnuts, and leave the car running so no one freezes, the stupid chime will go off every so often. Wifey winds up having to reach over to buckle up an empty seat.

Another gripe: windshield washers. Why can't the washer be a button like it used to? Used to be you could time hitting the button just right--and get precisely the number of passes from the blades. No more. It always wipes one time too many.

I have to admit, I like power locks and windows; and I do like auto up/down. Auto up/down is one of the great inventions, if you ask me (although I use it less now that we have EZPass). Power mirrors are nice too. The LATCH setup for kid seats is good. I suppose cars that crumple around is good, as is airbags, again to mitigate injuries. ABS, VSC, etc -- I won't say technology is all bad. If anything, it's annoying when they botch up the simple stuff.


My Avalon automatically switches between DRLs and headlights when on auto. Then shuts off with the door lock. Also, on Toyota vehicles you can re-program the seat belt chime to the off position if you don't like it. Plus the windshield wipers have complete control over the washer and have a nice feature to wipe the windshield once.
 
The problem with DRLs and automatic headlamps is becoming dangerously pervasive. Now that nearly every vehicle has dashboards that are always lit, there is rarely a visual prompt for the inattentive driver to turn on the headlamps. And "inattentive" is the key. People see two dim orbs of light in front of them from their DRLs and I guess that registers with them that their headlamps are on. Never mind that they can't see anything on the road. A lady pulled out in front of me last night in a black Maxima. No lights, no DRLs even. Completely invisible except for the shiny paint in street lights. I pray that these people don't get killed every time I see them.

We pull up at a traffic signal. She's behind somebody, and the back of that car is completely dark. She has no idea her lights are out. I roll up and roll down my window and honk. She's looking down at her phone, texting somebody. I suggest that she turn on her headlamps. "Oh, he he, I like totally forgot."

I really try to limit my night driving lately. Every time I'm out at night, I can count multiple vehicles without running lights. Many of these cars have automatic lamps, but I think folks turn them off.
 
Back when I had my Saturn, it had DRL's. I caught myself driving a couple of times, thinking that I should turn on the headlights, dawn/dusk, something like. Nah, I thought, I can see just fine. Somewhere around then was when I realized that it was a hindrance to me. I don't use the DRL's on my vehicles; if the lighting conditions are sub-optimal (too little or too much) I turn on my headlights.

IMO DRL's could be fixed if they would just turn on the parking lamp circuit also. I actually think GM vehicles had DRL's done just about right, at least the vehicles that used the bright yellow turn signal lamps. Very visible I thought. I think the dim white lamps that DRL's are not as eye catching--that, or I just filter out lights, since we are surrounded by so many things that are lit up.
 
As many others I don't mind new technology where it improves safety or comfort of the occupants, but I hate technology for the sake of being in front of the pack because it usually adds little to the above and usually doesn't work as intended because the tech was rushedjust to stay ahead.

I'm sure that most will agree that power windows, mirrors or locks are great, reliable and most on this board would not avoid cars equipped with them. But would that be the case 20-25 years ago, when the tech was fairly new in mainstream cars and mostly found in luxury brands? Most likely not.

I think that's what we're seeing with the latest wave of gadgets. These are fairly new, unrefined and most likely not as reliable as we would like. I'm sure that 20 years from now when all this tech works as it was intended to, this stuff will be seen as normal and not a big deal, just like most of us view power operated locks and windows.
 
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Power windows are great. You open up your hot car on a hot day, roll down the windows while you key the engine, and drive for a moment or two, blowing hot air out of the cabin while the A/C starts to work. Then you can roll the windows back up without having to pull over, or reach over a seat to get to the crank handles. I used to do that in my Ford Escort. Darned annoying.

But the devices on the dash and steering wheel are dangerously distracting.
 
Auto up is great for that. Take off, wait for the a/c to be working, then it's a quick feature to get all windows up.

Speaking of poor integration: on my VW, outside the car, you can use the key fob to raise all windows. After the windows go up, you wait a moment, then if the sunroof is open, it will close that too. Nice. The reverse almost works: if you hold the key fob the other way, it will lower the windows. But no amount of waiting will get the sunroof to open! [I guess that's not exactly ground-shattering incompetance--is it supposed to slide all the way back, or crack open?--but just one more of those "huh?" things.]
 
Originally Posted By: KrisZ
I'm sure that most will agree that power windows, mirrors or locks are great, reliable and most on this board would not avoid cars equipped with them.
I would definitely avoid power windows, power locks, and power mirrors. I actually told the guy I bought my S-10 from, that I probably would not have bought the truck if it didn't have manual door locks, windows, and mirrors.
 
I don't like automatic headlights either. Sometimes it's hard to tell if they're on or not. And when it's rainy out they don't necessarily come on. Also it gets drivers out of the habit of turning their headlights on.

Unfortunately I have automatic headlights in my S-10. In the off setting if it's dark out, they will come on. I don't like this feature, so every time I need the headlights I manually turn them on anyway.
 
Originally Posted By: supton
I hate automatic headlights. Too many morons driving around with them. If it's dawn or dusk--turn 'em on! Or just leave the headlights on. The rest of us would like to see you on dim/dark/overcast/rainy days. Or on overly bright conditions, like when driving into the sun.


I don't have as much experience with other makes, but GM's automatic headlights are pretty good in my experience. They come on in plenty of time when it starts getting dark, and they stay on in the morning as its getting light. If anything, they're so conservative that the lights are on more than almost anyone would expect of them. They also come on when the wipers are in use and when driving through a wooded area when it can be alternately sunny and tree-shaded. No complaints here.
 
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