Tough crowed as usual,use what you think is right for you!,who cares what others think do 1,000 OCI for all i care,just save it for your lawn mower to use after.
Down with extending your drain intervals!!!
- Thread starter Mark72
- Start date
- Status
gathermewool
Site Donor 2025
People who post asking whether a certain oil used in their application for a certain length of time is appropriate or over/underly conservative usually are asking because they're new to oil, such as was the case a few years ago when I got out of college and started caring. Before UOA and talking with people smarter than me on oil, I would run Royal Purple in my Focus for 3kmi or less because that's what I had mentally beat into my brain my entire life.
I'd argue that there are just as many people who don't know much about oil commenting and giving oil-related advice as those who actually know what they're talking about on this site, confusing the matter more for those coming to an oil site expecting expert comments from those in the know. I'm not sure where I fall in this, and I know I've posted things that may have been incorrect in the past. Hopefully we're all here to learn and grow, and part of that process should be opening yourself up to extended drains. If you're not here to minimize your waste or maximize your savings, then why are you here?
Oil is a heckuva hobby, and cheap to boot, but come one. Talking about the latest oil, filter or additive isn't really beneficial if you don't plan to utilize the benefits of newer technologies. Keeping with your archaic OCIs with out any justification other than it gives you peace of mind is fine, but please keep your subjective comments to yourself.
I'd argue that there are just as many people who don't know much about oil commenting and giving oil-related advice as those who actually know what they're talking about on this site, confusing the matter more for those coming to an oil site expecting expert comments from those in the know. I'm not sure where I fall in this, and I know I've posted things that may have been incorrect in the past. Hopefully we're all here to learn and grow, and part of that process should be opening yourself up to extended drains. If you're not here to minimize your waste or maximize your savings, then why are you here?
Oil is a heckuva hobby, and cheap to boot, but come one. Talking about the latest oil, filter or additive isn't really beneficial if you don't plan to utilize the benefits of newer technologies. Keeping with your archaic OCIs with out any justification other than it gives you peace of mind is fine, but please keep your subjective comments to yourself.
Last edited:
Originally Posted By: d00df00d
Originally Posted By: Mark72
While I'm hanging on the cross, someone please bring me some water...
Get over yourself, man. Sheesh.
What exactly do you think you're saving us from, anyway?
+1 the OP seems a little dramatic. to the OP, relax man !
Originally Posted By: Mark72
While I'm hanging on the cross, someone please bring me some water...
Get over yourself, man. Sheesh.
What exactly do you think you're saving us from, anyway?
+1 the OP seems a little dramatic. to the OP, relax man !
My point of departure is the manufacturer's recommended OCI using their recommended approved motor oil, which most dinos will meet. That is the most conservative point. Buy better oil and more efficient filters, and drive the car gently, and you can extend your OCIs. If you're towing, or running only short trips in the winter, change it out sooner. There is just no evidence whatsoever on this board or elsewhere that changing oil at 3000 miles leads to better longevity than following the manufacturer's guidelines.
I get what you're saying. What 3 months/3000 miles has going for it, above all else, is certainty. Following that regimen, any car, at any time, under any condition, should be absolutely fine.
Enter BITOG: They say a little knowledge is a dangerous thing. Never has that been more true than on here. "If you're running Pennzoil Platinum you're good till 10,000." "Do 7500 on conventional." Blanket statements. But what good are they?
There are too many variables involved to ever make blanket statements about OCI's. In that sense you are probably more correct than they are.
For a modern, fuel injected, non-turbocharged vehicle, not towing something, we'd have to consider:
- Crankcase capacity
- Long life synthetic vs Conventional
- severity of service
- % of highway miles
Suppose a BMW with an 8 quart crankcase, can go a maximum of 15,000 miles, on Long Life certified synthetic under ideal conditions. Then maybe we can look at it this way:
- 15,000 miles divided by 8 quarts = 1,875 miles per quart.
- Therefore 10,000 miles for a 5 quart crankcase.(1,875 X 3 = 5,625 less miles)
- 7,500 miles for a non-certified long life synthetic(25% value*)
- So a hypothetical, 5 quart crank, BMW, doing mostly highway miles, on standard synthetic should be good for 7500 miles.
- Severe use historically has cut the maximum interval in half. So mostly city, stop/go, winter driving, would be 3,750 miles. All the way down from 15,000 miles.
So some cars can go 4 times longer than others with the same level of protection. Depending on the variables.
Enter BITOG: They say a little knowledge is a dangerous thing. Never has that been more true than on here. "If you're running Pennzoil Platinum you're good till 10,000." "Do 7500 on conventional." Blanket statements. But what good are they?
There are too many variables involved to ever make blanket statements about OCI's. In that sense you are probably more correct than they are.
For a modern, fuel injected, non-turbocharged vehicle, not towing something, we'd have to consider:
- Crankcase capacity
- Long life synthetic vs Conventional
- severity of service
- % of highway miles
Suppose a BMW with an 8 quart crankcase, can go a maximum of 15,000 miles, on Long Life certified synthetic under ideal conditions. Then maybe we can look at it this way:
- 15,000 miles divided by 8 quarts = 1,875 miles per quart.
- Therefore 10,000 miles for a 5 quart crankcase.(1,875 X 3 = 5,625 less miles)
- 7,500 miles for a non-certified long life synthetic(25% value*)
- So a hypothetical, 5 quart crank, BMW, doing mostly highway miles, on standard synthetic should be good for 7500 miles.
- Severe use historically has cut the maximum interval in half. So mostly city, stop/go, winter driving, would be 3,750 miles. All the way down from 15,000 miles.
So some cars can go 4 times longer than others with the same level of protection. Depending on the variables.
Patman
Staff member
I've said it here many times before, 5k is the new 3k. People that want to be "absolutely safe" with their oil changes and not push things too far can easily do 5k changes with conventional oil and not run into problems. Oils have improved so much since the days when the 3k interval was born, and so have the fuel management systems (mainly the fact that we no longer use carbs, so fuel dilution is not a problem like it used to be)
Originally Posted By: Patman
I've said it here many times before, 5k is the new 3k.
I just couldn't bring my self to drop oil at only 5,000 but yea thats true.
I've said it here many times before, 5k is the new 3k.
I just couldn't bring my self to drop oil at only 5,000 but yea thats true.
Originally Posted By: daman
Originally Posted By: Patman
I've said it here many times before, 5k is the new 3k.
I just couldn't bring my self to drop oil at only 5,000 but yea thats true.
Yep, I agree. Personally, I think a 3000 mile oil change is a complete waste. If you can get to 200K miles on 3K changes, IMO, you'd get there running 5-6K OCI's too.
God didn't put us here to waste resources.
I typically run the vehicles I maintain to the OLM. 6K, 8K, or 10K. It is what it is.
In my Ford, I'll run the PP 5W20 to 7500-8000 miles, even with frequent towing. Inside the engine is spotless, because todays oils kick some serious bum.
Originally Posted By: Patman
I've said it here many times before, 5k is the new 3k.
I just couldn't bring my self to drop oil at only 5,000 but yea thats true.
Yep, I agree. Personally, I think a 3000 mile oil change is a complete waste. If you can get to 200K miles on 3K changes, IMO, you'd get there running 5-6K OCI's too.
God didn't put us here to waste resources.
I typically run the vehicles I maintain to the OLM. 6K, 8K, or 10K. It is what it is.
In my Ford, I'll run the PP 5W20 to 7500-8000 miles, even with frequent towing. Inside the engine is spotless, because todays oils kick some serious bum.
On one hand I see where you are coming from, I've been there too. On the other hand todays oils are nothing like they used to be and 5k is completely doable provided typical driving practices, my 1991 caprice owners manual recommends a 7500 mi OCI on 1991 conventional oils.
On the third hand, I think we all worry about this junk WAY too much.
On the third hand, I think we all worry about this junk WAY too much.
Well Mark could back it up with Consumer Reports wear was the same either syn vs dino. Or the many uoa reports that show dino does as well as syn. So backing it up is easy. Again as always if you are dealing with severe service you are nuts doing extended oci but if you drive is easy lets say in Walla Walla washington, maybe extended might work, but then again it might not. Thanks Mark for your thread I agree 100%> As someone said recently you are free to having your opinions, but not your own facts..
""What kind of oil, if I may ask, does Jesus use?""
nominated for post of the year Tom
nominated for post of the year Tom
Someone forgot to take his pill again it seems. Shame.
I don't do extended oci's unless you consider 4k on dino and 7.5k on PP, the only "synthetic" i use, extended, but if thats your thing then no problem, whatever you feel good about should be the course as with all things in life!
+2... But we still enjoy the fray.
+2...but we enjoy the fray. (Mobile phoneay
Mark, the positive side is you are thinking for yourself, which is a beautiful thing. You should continue to think for yourself.
Conformism is common on BITOG, no matter what people claim. For example, many members can only view automotive issues in terms of financial frugality, so they don't accept performance-based approaches for sports and luxury vehicles, like Red Line oil or other premium products. How sad is it when car guys don't seem to understand the concept of racing on the street and track, or cruising the boulevard in a luxury vehicle? It's heartbreaking.
The negative side is that your viewpoint is based on opinion only. You state, "I guarantee you the car with the shorter oci's will last longer," but, "it is up for debate if UOA's are giving you the real picture." Yes, shorter OCIs have less wear, but is it significant? What method do you propose instead of UOAs? Are you willing to tear down a perfectly good engine and measure/weigh the engine parts on a regular basis? I'm not.
If you had come forward and stated that you've run 3k vs. 5k UOAs on your vehicle under similar conditions, then you could have pointed out what you felt were significant differences in wear metal readings, viscosity loss, TBN, flash point, etc. Suddenly, you have a defensible viewpoint. I wish you had done exactly that, since it would have been a great discussion.
Conformism is common on BITOG, no matter what people claim. For example, many members can only view automotive issues in terms of financial frugality, so they don't accept performance-based approaches for sports and luxury vehicles, like Red Line oil or other premium products. How sad is it when car guys don't seem to understand the concept of racing on the street and track, or cruising the boulevard in a luxury vehicle? It's heartbreaking.
The negative side is that your viewpoint is based on opinion only. You state, "I guarantee you the car with the shorter oci's will last longer," but, "it is up for debate if UOA's are giving you the real picture." Yes, shorter OCIs have less wear, but is it significant? What method do you propose instead of UOAs? Are you willing to tear down a perfectly good engine and measure/weigh the engine parts on a regular basis? I'm not.
If you had come forward and stated that you've run 3k vs. 5k UOAs on your vehicle under similar conditions, then you could have pointed out what you felt were significant differences in wear metal readings, viscosity loss, TBN, flash point, etc. Suddenly, you have a defensible viewpoint. I wish you had done exactly that, since it would have been a great discussion.
Originally Posted By: Mark72
Again, this is only my opinion while realizing I could be wrong. But I'm so strongly against it, that I just had to get it off my chest. I apreciate you even taking the time to read any of this, or even finding it worthy of scolding me over it.
In many ways, Mark, I'm with you on this. I personally don't dispute anything that the people using extended intervals have to say. I don't dispute their results. In fact, I tend to trust their judgment and have no problems learning from what they have to say or asking them questions. They tend to be some of the most knowledgeable people on the topic. They've invested a great deal of time and money into learning, and I appreciate the opportunity to learn from them.
That being said, I personally use some rather conservative, short oil change intervals. I try to use a good oil and a good filter. I don't get any analyses done; perhaps I don't feel confident with my ability to analyse the knowledge, or I don't want to take the time.
I look at it this way. Changing the oil too often is a waste of money. Not changing it is a larger waste of money. I'd prefer to err on the side of caution.
Some have said that synthetics with short OCIs are a waste. That's true, to a point. However, live in a place where the temperature can go easily and frequently below -40, and you'll see the value in a quality synthetic. They're also rather nice for turbo applications. I face both issues. Further, my vehicles are used, and my Audi has a turbo, so I treat it right. I can't vouch for the previous owner, though indications were he did, too. If it is sludged up, I'm not going to add to the problem. With my old F-150, that was abused by the previous owner. He never changed the oil and had to rebuild it (did it himself, and didn't bother cleaning the oil galleries, put rings in upside down), never changed oil again, and I had to rebuild. A Ford 300 should never have to be rebuilt twice in 160000 miles unless you have zero clue how to maintain it.
So, I can appreciate your caution, and I'm sure others can appreciate why I'm a bit gun shy on the issue of extended drain intervals. Again, I'm glad some people do them. The knowledge they bring here is invaluable.
Again, this is only my opinion while realizing I could be wrong. But I'm so strongly against it, that I just had to get it off my chest. I apreciate you even taking the time to read any of this, or even finding it worthy of scolding me over it.
In many ways, Mark, I'm with you on this. I personally don't dispute anything that the people using extended intervals have to say. I don't dispute their results. In fact, I tend to trust their judgment and have no problems learning from what they have to say or asking them questions. They tend to be some of the most knowledgeable people on the topic. They've invested a great deal of time and money into learning, and I appreciate the opportunity to learn from them.
That being said, I personally use some rather conservative, short oil change intervals. I try to use a good oil and a good filter. I don't get any analyses done; perhaps I don't feel confident with my ability to analyse the knowledge, or I don't want to take the time.
I look at it this way. Changing the oil too often is a waste of money. Not changing it is a larger waste of money. I'd prefer to err on the side of caution.
Some have said that synthetics with short OCIs are a waste. That's true, to a point. However, live in a place where the temperature can go easily and frequently below -40, and you'll see the value in a quality synthetic. They're also rather nice for turbo applications. I face both issues. Further, my vehicles are used, and my Audi has a turbo, so I treat it right. I can't vouch for the previous owner, though indications were he did, too. If it is sludged up, I'm not going to add to the problem. With my old F-150, that was abused by the previous owner. He never changed the oil and had to rebuild it (did it himself, and didn't bother cleaning the oil galleries, put rings in upside down), never changed oil again, and I had to rebuild. A Ford 300 should never have to be rebuilt twice in 160000 miles unless you have zero clue how to maintain it.
So, I can appreciate your caution, and I'm sure others can appreciate why I'm a bit gun shy on the issue of extended drain intervals. Again, I'm glad some people do them. The knowledge they bring here is invaluable.
Here we go again, but twice as many changes of dino do a better job for the same money as synth at twice the interval.
Would you rather dino at 5-6k or synth at 10-12k? Since the cost is about double for synth, I'll take fresh oil and friction modifiers for the same money.
There is no substitute for physically draining out contaminates.
Would you rather dino at 5-6k or synth at 10-12k? Since the cost is about double for synth, I'll take fresh oil and friction modifiers for the same money.
There is no substitute for physically draining out contaminates.
- Status
Similar threads
- Locked
