RI_RS4, it appears that newer technology has removed past problems with HOBS products in the hands of people like Bill G. at RLI. I have talked with Terry about another interesting development in high-end synthetics, not including RLI. They are having problems with source somponents and formula's are changing. It's not that these changes are bad, but who's to know in the short term if a new additive with say,tin in it is going to work as well as the original formula. Some formulators have gone on in the past with the idea that they could just get what they wanted and raise the price as needed. Now the pricing has gone through the roof for some components if you can get them at all. I would not be surprised to see some of these operations going out of business in the near future. Mobil 1 may have been 'edged' to make more profit, but I'm afraid that the small guys will have to edge their products just to stay in business.