Where to now, Amsoil?

A

addyguy

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Amsoil, from the start, has pushed the ‘long drain’ mantra, and kept it very consistent - 25k miles or 1 year. Other oils have offered long-drain guarantees, but they have come and gone. A lot of other ‘25k’ oils went out of business, and its main competitor, M1, went to OEM intervals for a long time in the 80’s.
In trying to stand above the crowd, for a while, Amsoil added a ‘super premium’ oil to its collection - SSO 0W-30, and it came with a 35k-mile guarantee. Then, to simplify things, they dropped it back down to 25k like the other grades in the SS line.
Now everyone has a long drain oil..I won’t list them, bc basically everyone has a 20 or 25k oil. Amsoil now just blends in, no pun intended.
So, does Amsoil bring out another ‘super premium’ oil line for 30k? 35k? Start recommending 2-year drain intervals? Over to you, Amsoil…
 
Just because it says it can doesn’t mean it should. I’ve been using since 2003 and have always been on the conservative side. The furthest I’ve gone was 10K on SS 0W30 in a 15 Tacoma 4.0L. Both of my beloved Tacomas the other was a 2002 3.4L where spotless. I use SS 0W30 in the Pilot and follow the olm. The Tundra is getting every other oil change with SS 0w20 for 5K intervals.
 
addyguy said:
Amsoil, from the start, has pushed the ‘long drain’ mantra, and kept it very consistent - 25k miles or 1 year. Other oils have offered long-drain guarantees, but they have come and gone. A lot of other ‘25k’ oils went out of business, and its main competitor, M1, went to OEM intervals for a long time in the 80’s.
In trying to stand above the crowd, for a while, Amsoil added a ‘super premium’ oil to its collection - SSO 0W-30, and it came with a 35k-mile guarantee. Then, to simplify things, they dropped it back down to 25k like the other grades in the SS line.
Now everyone has a long drain oil..I won’t list them, bc basically everyone has a 20 or 25k oil. Amsoil now just blends in, no pun intended.
So, does Amsoil bring out another ‘super premium’ oil line for 30k? 35k? Start recommending 2-year drain intervals? Over to you, Amsoil…
Click to expand...
The difference is still gonna be, in general, that Amsoil uses higher quality base oils, more robust add packs, and has a higher TBN than “shelf” oils.

There’s a huge difference between 25k miles OR one year. Any oil can make it one year if you’re driving 50 miles per week with low idle times. It takes a darn good formula and a good engine design to make it 25k in 12 months, and to do it without keeping tabs on what’s going on in the engine. Even some of the very finest oils show thickening out of grade at these extended mileages, which is not as big a concern as thinning out of grade due to fuel dilution.

Long story short, Amsoil still says to follow mfr recommendations; blindly going 25k without periodic analysis to ensure the oil is still able to protect the engine is not only dumb, it won’t be covered by any oil blender’s warranty.
 
SubieRubyRoo said:
The difference is still gonna be, in general, that Amsoil uses higher quality base oils, more robust add packs, and has a higher TBN than “shelf” oils.

There’s a huge difference between 25k miles OR one year. Any oil can make it one year if you’re driving 50 miles per week with low idle times. It takes a darn good formula and a good engine design to make it 25k in 12 months, and to do it without keeping tabs on what’s going on in the engine. Even some of the very finest oils show thickening out of grade at these extended mileages, which is not as big a concern as thinning out of grade due to fuel dilution.

Long story short, Amsoil still says to follow mfr recommendations; blindly going 25k without periodic analysis to ensure the oil is still able to protect the engine is not only dumb, it won’t be covered by any oil blender’s warranty.
Click to expand...
There is always talk on this site about the higher quality base oils being used by blenders, specifically Amsoil or HPL. I've wondered, where do the higher quality base oils come from? I'm assuming that these blenders buy from majors like Shell, BP or ExxonMobil? If that's true, does Shell or Mobil or Castrol ever use these higher quality base oils in their own shelf oils? Thanks!
 
SubieRubyRoo said:
Long story short, Amsoil still says to follow mfr recommendations; blindly going 25k without periodic analysis to ensure the oil is still able to protect the engine is not only dumb, it won’t be covered by any oil blender’s warranty.
Click to expand...
That tells it all. Blind faith or because someone on forum is using your favorite oil, has the same vehicle, with the same engine as you, driving under what you A$$UME are the similar conditions means NOTHING. Unless the vehicle is driven in the same location under identical conditions, with no mechanical issues, and good air filtration, extending an OCI on blind faith is a fools errand. If you want to venture into extending an OCI beyond what the mfg. suggests pay for a UOA, ruining a good engine is very expensive. JMO. Flame suit on.
 
I think when a lot of people tell you that you’re not going to reap the benefits of Amsoil SS under normal diving conditions when compared to name brand off the shelf oils, they’re not kidding. In my back to back UOA’s comparing Amsoil SS to Mobil1 EP, they performed almost identical (10,000 mile intervals). And that’s what I expected. So, for the “normal stuff”…not going to 20,000 miles, highway commute, not tracking the vehicle, no towing/hauling/plowing/delivery service…save the $$ and go with something anyone can buy at any Walmart around the country. Or not. It’s up to you.

Maybe that’s why Amsoil isn’t formulating the next “better” oil, because their Signature Series is already more than most need, and there isn’t a lot of need for it.
 
SubieRubyRoo said:
The difference is still gonna be, in general, that Amsoil uses higher quality base oils, more robust add packs, and has a higher TBN than “shelf” oils.
Click to expand...
I think that may be true for Amsoil SS oils but as far as I can tell their OE and XL lines aren't much different than what's available off the shelf at Walmart, AZ, AA etc...

I'll admit that I've never used Amsoil mostly because I change oil at 6 or 7K* max. and what's easily procured at the above mentioned stores suits my needs fine. Also, when name brand synthetics used to go on 'CLEARANCE' at AZ and AA it was hard to pass them up.

* I do 5K max. on my GDI Focus due to soot darkening it earlier than in our other vehicles. For that reason I'll use basically any synthetic like ST, Kirkland etc..
 
A few things have happened over the last 10 years or so. We have more GDI engines now and more junk being thrown back into the oil creating a nightmare for the oil to deal with. No oil can counter large volumes of nitrous oxides riding in the oil. They are the precursor to real auto oxidation. All automotive oil formulators are struggling with fine soot.

Amsoil has to make a product better than what is off the shelf or there is little incentive to use it. The majors can compete competitively through economies of scale and off the shelf oils are better than they ever have been. Amsoil will just have to continue to demonstrate why their oil outperforms the competitors through the testing they've historically shown.

The SS line is the line with the higher end base oils (Group V) as you can see the large oxidation spike in VOA (Amsoil is around 62). The rest of Amsoil's line is more average.
 
Dave P. said:
There is always talk on this site about the higher quality base oils being used by blenders
Click to expand...
When you say “higher quality” base oils I presume you are speaking of higher performance rather than purity. We actually know very little about the performance quality of the base oils used in common motor oils. The SDS gives some limited information about the chemistry of some portions of the base oil, and there is a lot of speculation here based on the Noack and pour point, but blenders are usually quiet on the subject and specifications give no clue.

Even when we know some of the base oil chemistries, the quality of the chemistry can vary considerably. For example, Group III can run from a bare minimum (VI 120) to Group III+ or GTL (VI 140). Esters vary among different manufacturers based on raw material quality and processing techniques, and mineral oils in the same group can vary in quality based on feed stock and processing.

Long ago I was negotiating to toll a high volume of esters for a major company. Knowing that their current toll manufacturer was a plasticizer company I requested samples to see if I had a quality advantage. They sent three of their products for our analysis, and collectively the three failed 21 of our specifications for lubricant grade ester. That’s not to say that their esters would hurt an engine – my point is just that quality can vary significantly among suppliers, which is why esters are not technically allowed manufacturer read across in certified formulations (although it happens). The major company, by the way, was a large supplier of esters to oil blenders at a low price, including boutiques. Small blenders are often price driven since profit falls directly to the owner’s pocket.

In addition, there is a question of blender integrity. It is not an uncommon practice to sell off-specification base stocks at a discount when re-processing or blend-off is not feasible or cost effective. And I have heard of some companies substituting Group II or II+ for Group III in synthetic formulations.

For perspective sake we should also consider the relative value of base oil quality in the performance for finished motor oils. The base oil certainly contributes to flow properties and oxidative stability, but when it comes to the critically important properties of wear, sludge, and deposit prevention, the additives play a larger role. Just knowing the base stocks used without knowing their performance quality or percentage is not of much help in predicting the performance of the finished oil. Hence the importance of carefully controlled engine and fleet tests.
 
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Tom NJ said:
When you say “higher quality” base oils I presume you are speaking of higher performance rather than purity. We actually know very little about the performance quality of the base oils used in common motor oils. The SDS gives some limited information about the chemistry of some portions of the base oil, and there is a lot of speculation here based on the Noack and pour point, but blenders are usually quiet on the subject and specifications give no clue.

Even when we know some of the base oil chemistries, the quality of the chemistry can vary considerably. For example, Group III can run from a bare minimum (VI 120) to Group III+ or GTL (VI 140). Esters vary among different manufacturers based on raw material quality and processing techniques, and mineral oils in the same group can vary in quality based on feed stock and processing.

Long ago I was negotiating to toll a high volume of esters for a major company. Knowing that their current toll manufacturer was a plasticizer company I requested samples to see if I had a quality advantage. They sent three of their products for our analysis, and collectively the three failed 21 of our specifications for lubricant grade ester. That’s not to say that their esters would hurt an engine – my point is just that quality can vary significantly among suppliers, which is why esters are not technically allowed manufacturer read across in certified formulations (although it happens). The major company, by the way, was a large supplier of esters to oil blenders at a low price, including boutiques. Small blenders are often price driven since profit falls directly to the owner’s pocket.

In addition, there is a question of blender integrity. It is not an uncommon practice to sell off-specification base stocks at a discount when re-processing or blend-off is not feasible or cost effective. And I have heard of some companies substituting Group II or II+ for Group III in synthetic formulations.

For perspective sake we should also consider the relative value of base oil quality in the performance for finished motor oils. The base oil certainly contributes to flow properties and oxidative stability, but when it comes to the critically important properties of wear, sludge, and deposit prevention, the additives play a larger rule. Just knowing the base stocks used without knowing their performance quality or percentage is not of much help in predicting the performance of the finished oil. Hence the importance of carefully controlled engine and fleet tests.
Click to expand...
And we still have folks regularly blending their own collection of clearance oils and if the engine doesn’t implode immediately; then it must be working! 😶‍🌫️

Big gamble on playing backyard chemist when you read posts like yours. Thank you for the insights.

Oil is better than no oil. So add what you need to if you need to…But not all oils play well together and the end result is far more likely to be a worse performing product than simply changing the oil with a fully formulated product.

Perhaps an engine “easy on oil” it won’t make a difference over a modest OCI and highway driving. But that approach with today’s TGDI with fuel dilution, city driving, short trips etc and you want the best protection possible.

Amsoil’s Signature Series lineup is still one of the best fully formulated oils you can get. Even if you aren’t able to extend the interval in such applications; the product itself has plenty of headroom. Oil is still relatively cheap compared to engines. I don’t get the obsession with lowest price even if it means making your own frankenblend and calling it “good”.

Some want a better value. I don’t always buy Amsoil, but when I do I can trust it’s an excellent product and I don’t mind spending a little more up front OOP as I’m able to extend the interval and perform less frequent maintenance in my vehicle.

Whether Amsoil somehow comes out with a new tier or formulation for today’s engines is yet to be seen. It makes one wonder what a formulation change could look like. Something novel like Valvoline’s R&P perhaps?
 
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“Cleaning” capability over “keep clean” comes into play here as well. Switched both car and truck to HPL at the same time and the truck was the only thing to show the famous carbon crud in the filters so far, which has lived on off the shelf oils for 210k. The car, having run Amsoil SS for the better part of 80k miles showed two filters, each at 2500 miles on HPL with nothing noteworthy. I’m convinced by what I’m seeing that it cleans very well.
 
Speaking of, I've been considering switching my 22 wrx that is stock power (for a bit) to amsoil 5w30 or 0w30. I believe they're API SP? Also, would it be a waste of money if I plan 3-4k miles OCI?

I'm looking for a relatively thick 30 oil (the Valvoline R&P I use is 3.24 HTHS/ 10.4 kv100) . How does the amsoil xw30 compare? I looked online but didn't find info
 
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