Double-Super-Secret 5W-40 Audi RS4 Racing Oil

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I do most work in house or go out to ex CVX, oronite guys or Bill Herguth. The problem I have is people on this forum have wanted to quote your test reports but there is some confidentiality deal where you or they can not comment fully and as such I have not seen anything that I'm impressed with and would need services for.

And in the past when I pay for consulting I do and have paid for all the generated data and verbal/written correspondence to do with whatever i want.
bruce
 
Understood bruce.

One clarification and that is this board is public, and all the testing you have seen here is consumer level. Meaning professional work costs much more for the advanced testing. The professional customer is free to use the data as they see fit. I would say most if not all my professional level customers have no need to disclose our proprietary techniques publicly.

If I know work will be shared publicly/freely I cannot afford to allow proprietary techniques disclosed that set Dyson apart from the herd. I doubt Herguth or any of the Chevron sourced testing facilities share anything but cookie cutter "why" for the same reason.

Our tribological work is not cookie cutter or I could not have survived 30 years interpreting the same test protocols that everyone has access to.

Terry
 
""I doubt Herguth or any of the Chevron sourced testing facilities share anything but cookie cutter "why" for the same reason""

Wrong perhaps because I know them But I get first rate no holds barred data and input in fact nothing they do for me is cookie cutter. Personal contacts make a big difference perhaps I'm sure you do same but as far as a selling feature here I have not seen it. No disrepect intended.
I understand on this forum perhaps is not a good place to show your cards.
bruce
 
"I understand on this forum perhaps is not a good place to show your cards."

bruce, that's an undstatment Ask the FORMER VP at one of our common POE sources about that....
 
Engines that really need RLI "have gum, won't travel"

Quote:

Quote:

I just test and interpret tests for the customer. I am available for work at G-C lubricants too!

Click to expand...


(cue Paladin theme music
grin.gif
)

Have Gun - Will Travel

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Oh no not another customer who might post more than just "jingles" , good to see you out from under John!
 
Quote:

but as far as a selling feature here I have not seen it. No disrepect intended.

Click to expand...


Yes, Bruce, and in all honesty, Terry can surely give a surface impression of being very "fuzzy" in his posting style. It's comical really. Once you cross his palm with silver ..the internet facade evaporates and you get the real deal. To someone who has never dealt with him on a (even consumer) professional level it can surely seem like he (almost) "creates" a mystique around some things. The bandwagon response is one that's built by the experience of his customers ..it's not a "fad" or "let's join the crowd that's marveling at Terry's newest thing" type event ...though it surely could appear like this is the case.

You're both very smart people and I'm sure if you ever met face to face you would both have a grand time sharing "stuff". I'm sure the brain pans are comparable.

Just so everyone knows, Bruce is one of the 4000 members of STLE (Society of Tribologist and Lubrication Engineers). It's not your common Rotary Club.
 
I thought I'd compile and provide some more data on the RS4 study. The following weblink provides a tabbed spreadsheet with the raw data for 17 Audi RS4 engines and 11 different oil types. The only oil that I identify explicitly is Renewable Lubes BioSynthetic 5W-40, which is highlighted in blue. The link provides the raw data, plus multiple sorted tabs, which generally sort worst to best from top to bottom.

For some of the data, I've normalized it to 1K miles. However, I have not removed the initial change wear from the data. So remember that as mileage increases, the average will go down. Also, on some engines samples were taken at multiple mileages on the oil before change. On other engines, only one sample was taken at the oil change.

All but a couple of samples were processed by Dyson Analysis.

RS4 Oil Analysis Results
 
Disclaimer: I'm certainly don't have much experience reading this type of data, so please don't take anything I say as anything more than babble.

Having said that, I'll have to admit that I expected to see a more clear difference. Oil #7 certainly was far superior when it came to viscosity, but the wear number on some of the other oils didn't seem way outside the box. Oil #9 seemed to stand out to me for some reason, but it has some poor viscosity result, but it seemed to have mixed results like several of the others. The RLI likely is the most consistent over the long haul however.
 
Blackdiamond, good comments. I've taken the raw data tab and returned it to the raw data that you're used to.

Several things to notice. In many cases, especially for Biosyn, there are multiple samples at several mileage points along the way. But if you look at the cases of highest mileage, you'll see that for Iron and Aluminum it has significantly lower wear.

I would make the following conclusions about BioSyn from the current data:

Copper is an additive. Hence the high levels.

Extremely low Iron wear levels, when compared to other oils.

No Tin wear. Considering that it has been driven hard on the track, that seems significant.

Average Lead wear levels and low to average Chromium and Nickel wear levels.

Very low Aluminum wear levels.

Very low Silicon wear levels, but skewed by some early break-in samples.
 
Blackdiamond,

also, the Incremental Wear tab is what sealed the deal for me. These are measurements made on my engine, so I do know the conditions were equivalent. There are two things important here.

1) BioSyn is controlling fuel dilution. The rate of diluion is much lower, and, when fresh oil is added, the oil is able to recover.

2) If you look at incremental wear numbers (the average change in wear between samples without an oil change) there is no contest. Biosyn clearly has 2x to 3x less wear.
 
Here's another way of looking at the iron wear data. I have taken the data, removed all samples that were taken with less than 2000 miles on the oil, since they are offset by the initial metals from the previous oil change, and initial seating wear of the oil. This is plotted below.


We now have engines running all sorts of oils across the entire mileage spectrum. Whenever someone changes to Biosyn, wear drop is significant.

iron%20wear%20vs%20mileage.jpg
 
It's remarkable that this oil was able to reduce fuel dilution/wear consistently over all the other 502 oils.
 
I thought Iron and Copper were two of the most important wear indicators on a UOA? If this is the case, doesn't having copper as an additive simply mask any potential wear in that area as it will be a small % of what is expected? Why not grind up some Iron shavings and wear will go to zero? I realize that this is oversimplification, but it seems strange to eliminate one of the wear indicators.
 
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