Double-Super-Secret 5W-40 Audi RS4 Racing Oil

[Terry]

Max, show me your data using our oil analysis service on the current oils in use and I will custom tune a lube to meet your needs WHATEVER the chemistry and source.

I don't care who makes it unless it something cool like LC/FP, auto-rx, SF,hydrocracked grpII base pcmo for low cost, or in this case RLI BIOSYN. I love supporting the little guys when they have superior technology! I use the big guys when they bring our superior technology ( Pennzoil Platinum and CJ4 Rotella T, comes to mind).

RLI BIOSYN is definitely in the running for a setup like this. Fuchs in europe is making biosyn oils that were originally called Plantomot and the GT1 0w20 is becoming more well known after some very brave 911 racers have used it in the course. RLI is like Fuchs on steriods because of the patented add pack that compliments the BIO and the Syn formulas.

Let me tell you that Molakule was building the best darn racing oils I could source and this board new it. However we always want stuff on the cheap and support walmart more than our local genius's so no one can source SF right now.

If any of you guys and gals have ever doubted my sincerity in telling you of amazingly cool cutting technology don't ignore this and a year from now ask why can't we get RLI BIOSYN.

BTW max the RS4 turns near 9000 rpm and although it is naturally aspirated the 1300 psi DI fuel hitting the hot cylinder wall causes quire a stresser on any motor oil film.

Terry

 

[bluemax1]

Terry,

I'll pull a sample at ~2000 miles and have you analyze it for your recommendations. At the moment, I've only got about 350 miles on the latest oil change (Redline 10w40).


Max

 

[VeeDubb]

RS4 or Terry,
I'm wondering if its possible to get RLI to put the label "Recommended for VW502/505 etc." on the BioSyn 5w-40 bottles. I know many oil companies do this even with oils that have not been formally tested (e.g. Maxlife Synthetic, Amsoil). I can tell you that my VW service advisor has never had an issue with Maxlife Synthetic for warranty purposes. He says if the specs are on the bottle, that's all he cares about. He told me he is not going to worry about whether the specs are preceded by the word "recommended" or "approved."

Anyways, I'm not a lawyer so I don't know the legal issues that may arise, but I think this would really enhance the marketability of this oil to VAG/Audi owners who are under warranty.

 

[G-MAN]

Quote:

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5W-40 in the US. 5W-30 in Europe. Based on our testing, it appears that the engine wants to see 40W oils at the rings. 30W oils seem to be specified in Europe due to the shorter driving cycles.

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Maybe they specify 5w40 in the US because they knew fuel dilution was going to be a problem here.

Castrol has a factory fill contract with VW and Audi, so what is the factory fill for the RS4?

 

[98LSC32V]

I thought the RS4 had a redline in the 8250rpm range?

 

[buster]

Quote:

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Historically, the primary drawback of conventional vegetable oils is their lower oxidative stability relative to mineral oils and certain synthetic esters. Today, with recent advances in Hybrid Breeding technology, it is now possible to alter the physical properties of conventional vegetable oils by changing fatty acid profiles. One specific example pertaining to vegetable lubricants is the improvement of Oxidative Stability by increasing the Oleic content in various vegetable oils.

Since 1991, Renewable Lubricants, Inc. (RLI) has pioneered an extensive research and development program focused on vegetable oil based lubricants. The primary focus of this program has involved formulating biobased automotive Engine and Hydraulic oils. Recent work in the program has directed R&D toward Food Grade Lubricants, Industrial Fluids, Penetrating Lubricants, Corrosion Inhibitors/Preservative Oils, and Transformer Fluids. RLI has collaborated with many companies and organizations throughout this R&D program, including Lubrizol, Penn State, USDA, DOD, DOI, DOE, USB, NCGA, and Dow AgroSciences.

RLI has developed patented and proprietary additives demonstrating exceptional performance in High Oleic Base Stocks (HOBS) as lubricant base stocks. RLI's additive technology, Stabilized™, provides a low cost method for stabilizing vegetable base lubricants for high and low temperature Engine, Transmission, Hydraulic, Gear, and Grease applications.

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http://www.unitedbiolube.us/Win/HOBS_Introduction.html

 

[bruce381]

web search "Environmental Lubricants Manufacturing"

The original guy Lou Honerary (spelling?) was is the father of HOBO lubes with work back 10-15 years at Iowa State
on High oleic soy He was one og the irst and have a first rate product line and R+D, they do not make a PCMO (wonder why?) talk to him.
bruce

 

[Gary Allan]

I think that we can figure that a "commercially/economically competitive/viable/practical" HOBO/HOBS/etc PCMO is non existent. It's kinda like trying to get substantial horse power gains out of jeep in line engines. It can be done ..but by the time you add up the cost, it's cheaper to buy another (different design) engine.

....but if that's what you want to do (or in this case, apparently, need to do)..

 

[d00df00d]

1. I was under the impression that, taking into account performance, RLI has a whole lineup of commercially/economically competitive/viable/practical HOBO/HOBS/etc. PCMOs. And HDEOs. And racing oils.

2. I would guess that value per dollar is secondary. Given the choice between a top-shelf synthetic and a slighty more expensive brew that works at least equally well but is made from renewable resources by a mom-and-pop operation on a farm in Ohio, I'd take the latter in a heartbeat, and I'm sure I'm not the only one.

 

[Gary Allan]

1) If it was competitive, and offered that much of an edge, it would be widely adopted. You also don't see this done by anyone else, even those in the HOBS/HOBO refining/blending business. This is development of alternative lubricants. When Amsoil came out it wasn't, in any way that anyone could measure, "competitive". There was virtually no competition and the price was way WAY out of whack with "commercially available" products. The price spread/ratio was about 10-14:1 over conventional back then. Way more than RLI is today in comparative costs. This is a practical in "There is more than one way to skin a cat". It appears, in our OP's case, there's a niche benefit that works out well for him in his demanding environment. I think that it's great ...I'm never one for doing ANYTHING in ANY conventional manner. Migrating with the herd is never my first reaction to anything. I personally don't care about the costs if you achieve your desired goals. I think my antics speak for themselves in that I will, within my limited means, go to whatever length I can manage just to find out "errr..what happens if you do this?". Now about 300M fellow Americans don't share my views on the costs part ...but that's their business.

2. Dispense with the Norman Rockwell visions of struggling depression era characters eking out a living. Anyone into this level of production over a diverse product line had substantial capital to invest. That being said, I hope that they do indeed succeed in this aspect of the enterprise. This stuff doesn't self create out of a vacuum and RLI may just stick around long enough to see "their dreams come true" in being a product not too far ahead of its time. I hope they become multi-millionaires (they're probably already millionaires- not as glamorous as we're led to believe) and end up being some substantial minor player offering alternative choices to those who desire them and can perceive/realize benefit from them. I really mean that.

 

[d00df00d]

How the oil performs and how much it costs are not the only factors at play here. These products are difficult to market to the people who will spend good money on oil because they don't carry the "fully synthetic" label and don't come from a well-known company, and they are still far too expensive to market to most people who don't care about the synthetic designation. Plus, this is a relatively recent innovation. That's why they haven't broken out yet.

Come on, you and I both know how much of the game is marketing and brand name premium.

 

[Gary Allan]

I have no argument with what you say there. Marketing (advertising, promotions, sponsorships, etc), in some products, represents 65% of the retail cost.

 

[buster]

I agree with the both of you. However, before anyone jumps to conclusions, including RI and Terry, how about some more data? Will we even see any improvements through oil analysis compared to the already excellent API SM oils in daily drivers? What about other engine configurations and climates?

 

[lindermant]

I ordered RLI's 0W20 for use in my '05 Civic; interested to see how it tackles the honda fuel issue

I've lost the bubble on this, has anyone tried it in their honda yet?

 

[d00df00d]

Terry Dyson...

 

[Terry]

No bashing here! I am but a simple testing hack looking for any company or individual ( buster

) (THAT PAYS )to test for.
Clarification: Dr.Lou Honary of University of Northern Iowa, associated with soybean oils research at ABIL, ELM, and others, HAS HAD NO hand in the work of HOBS or specifically at RLI. RLI and Bill Garmier have the only functional HOBS based motor oils that I am aware of being sold and used long term. Honary gave up on that and focused on hydraulic fluids, dust suppressants,transformer oils, expendable rail lubes. When you mention oxidation stability, wear control,volatility, ELM and RLI are not even comparable.

The RLI technology is advanced enough that few are on board or understand it.

I am using the RLI product because it works. Just like every other technology you will ever hear or read me address with my name attached.

The ones I am silent on are for a reason.

Attack, because the truth is in the testing and use of the technology.

In two years this board and consumers will wonder why we did didn't buy or support cutting edge home grown lubricants more.. . Don't allow RLI to end up like SF in that respect.

Terry

 

[buster]

I think quite a few people are now using RLI which is great for us. The results so far are extremely impressive. Terry, I'll be sending you a sample in about a month. It's been a year since I did a UOA.

 

[bruce381]

""When you mention oxidation stability, wear control,volatility, ELM and RLI are not even comparable.""

never said they were.

I would like to test this patented oxidation package and compare with common to the indusrty types.

Terry could you get me a bottle of RLI fluid with and with out RLI add pak?

I will run a NOACK and RBOT or TOST on the RLI and a few common AO's added to there base oil and we shall see.

Till then I will sit this out.

bruce

 

[Terry]

bruce, please contact RLI directly and ask for that info. I agree that the base oils and whatever they are willing to sell should be evaluated if our automotive engine testing is any indication. I do NOT sell or market oil for anyone including RLI. I just test and interpret tests for the customer. I am available for work at G-C lubricants too!

 

[Gary Allan]

Quote:

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I just test and interpret tests for the customer. I am available for work at G-C lubricants too!

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(cue Paladin theme music

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Have Gun - Will Travel