Does RenewableLube have known issues with formulation quality?

Suburbazine

Suburbazine

Joined
Dec 2, 2008
Messages
4
Location
Pigeon Forge, TN
So I have been tracking oil quality on my car and got a (mildly?) concerning result on my last sample. The oil seems to not have the expected antiwear numbers and quality that I expected it to have. For reference, this is 7 quarts of 15w-40 HDMO from RLI, with a full 8oz of their "Booster Pak" added to it. From the specs of both RLI HDMO and BP, I should be seeing significantly better zinc and moly than I got, as well as the viscosity issue. Would there be some logical reason to see a drop in numbers between two samples mixed the same way? There's even less miles on the worse sample. But there are no mechanical issues that I can determine (the manganese was from a brief stint with MMT prior to methanol).

I have come here to the experts because I can't get RLI to return any phone calls or emails for the last 3 months. I'm not going to be using them again as a result, but I'd like to learn (for science!) why there might or might not be an issue afoot. I am about to get a 3rd sample of RLI on the current ODI but I swapped to their 5w-40 SHP with 8oz BP instead to help out a bit in really cold weather.

PS: I may be posting this thread in the wrong section, I'm using HDMO in a turbo gasoline application with 100% methanol injection on top. Kia Stinger 3.3.


Screenshot_388.webp
 
This likely depends on how the lab is analyzing the sample and margin of error on the testing equipment.

Zinc to Phosphorus in ZDDP is nearly 1:1 so that likely points to the older sample reading incorrectly low in Phosphorus. With low mileage on the oil you’re almost certainly not depleting the additive chemistry. I’d look to find another oil analysis lab to compare against if you really want to validate results more.
 
Based on the viscosity shown it looks like the "Booster" is a viscosity thickener. You don't need that. All that being said this oil appears to have VERY high quality synthetic based oil. Although the add packs seems typical of a CK-4 style oil. This oil should serve you very well in my opinion. However, if the company is not responding to you then I understand your desire to look elsewhere.

You can click on the report link on your post to send a note to a mod for them to move this to HDEO UOA forum.

There's:
HPL
Triax -communication via email only
Amsoil etc.
 
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Suburbazine said:
So I have been tracking oil quality on my car and got a (mildly?) concerning result on my last sample. The oil seems to not have the expected antiwear numbers and quality that I expected it to have. For reference, this is 7 quarts of 15w-40 HDMO from RLI, with a full 8oz of their "Booster Pak" added to it. From the specs of both RLI HDMO and BP, I should be seeing significantly better zinc and moly than I got, as well as the viscosity issue. Would there be some logical reason to see a drop in numbers between two samples mixed the same way? There's even less miles on the worse sample. But there are no mechanical issues that I can determine (the manganese was from a brief stint with MMT prior to methanol).

I have come here to the experts because I can't get RLI to return any phone calls or emails for the last 3 months. I'm not going to be using them again as a result, but I'd like to learn (for science!) why there might or might not be an issue afoot. I am about to get a 3rd sample of RLI on the current ODI but I swapped to their 5w-40 SHP with 8oz BP instead to help out a bit in really cold weather.

PS: I may be posting this thread in the wrong section, I'm using HDMO in a turbo gasoline application with 100% methanol injection on top. Kia Stinger 3.3.


View attachment 266034
Click to expand...
First, you have a number of variables in play, which is confusing and skewing things.

What does the new oil analysis (VOA) show for each of these oils so a valid analysis can be made?

So in answer to your question:

Does RenewableLube have known issues with formulation quality?​


Not that I am aware as they have been consistent in their formulation(s). However, formulations may change without notice.
 
MolaKule said:
First, you have a number of variables in play, which is confusing and skewing things.

What does the new oil analysis (VOA) show for each of these oils so a valid analysis can be made?

So in answer to your question:

Does RenewableLube have known issues with formulation quality?​


Not that I am aware as they have been consistent in their formulation(s). However, formulations may change without notice.
Click to expand...
I do have some of the original unused oil left, I will get a baseline sample to compare.
 

I’ve used the RLI HD 15w40 blended with the 10w30 and SAE 30. The 15w40 by itself is very heavy and has a higher HTHS than I need. In my opinion it is their flagship oil and has fantastic properties.

I’ve also used the booster pak as well. My virgin analysis are posted on this forum.

The first time I used booster pak the expected Antimony was lower than expected, but since then it is very close when blended by % of total oil volume.

RLI oils don’t have Moly, they use Antimony DTC as the multifunctional additive. If you want to see the Antimony in PPM you need to use Polaris or Oil Analyzers from Amsoil. Every sample I’ve ever ran on their HD 10w30, 15w40 or their excellent SAE30 oils has been very consistent and I always used oil analyzers test kits.



Suburbazine said:
So I have been tracking oil quality on my car and got a (mildly?) concerning result on my last sample. The oil seems to not have the expected antiwear numbers and quality that I expected it to have. For reference, this is 7 quarts of 15w-40 HDMO from RLI, with a full 8oz of their "Booster Pak" added to it. From the specs of both RLI HDMO and BP, I should be seeing significantly better zinc and moly than I got, as well as the viscosity issue. Would there be some logical reason to see a drop in numbers between two samples mixed the same way? There's even less miles on the worse sample. But there are no mechanical issues that I can determine (the manganese was from a brief stint with MMT prior to methanol).

I have come here to the experts because I can't get RLI to return any phone calls or emails for the last 3 months. I'm not going to be using them again as a result, but I'd like to learn (for science!) why there might or might not be an issue afoot. I am about to get a 3rd sample of RLI on the current ODI but I swapped to their 5w-40 SHP with 8oz BP instead to help out a bit in really cold weather.

PS: I may be posting this thread in the wrong section, I'm using HDMO in a turbo gasoline application with 100% methanol injection on top. Kia Stinger 3.3.


View attachment 266034
Click to expand...
 
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The high oxidation value of > 100 is indicative of RLI + booster pak although higher than I would expect. I believe the base RLI HD oils are around 85 in my sample with 2.5% booster pak. By my calculation your booster pak addition was 3.4% of the total volume added.

This above may also indicate a calibration issue with analysis.

C

Thread 'RLI 10w40 Homebrew Bio-SynXtra HD Low Ash VOA'

The 10w30 RLI I got was kinda low on the cSt @ 100 so I decided to mix it with the 15w40 to make it a 10w40. I also wanted to see how two multigrade oils of the same formulation would blend together. Kinda like an experiment.

50/50 Homebrew Blend of RLI Bio-SynXtra HD Low Ash 10w30 and 15w40.

Recipe:

60 mL of RLI 10w30
60 mL of RLI 15w40
3 mL of RLI Bio-Syn Booster Pack (2.5% by volume)

I have a small lab at work. We have beakers, pipettes, and magnetic stirrers. I think my measurements were pretty accurate. I mixed it for about 2-3 minutes with the biggest magnetic stirrer we had. I...

Did you thoroughly shake your oil jugs prior to use?

Even at 14K miles the oxidation was < 90.

C

Thread 'OZ Tuned 2014 Cruze Diesel (Opel A20DTH) - RLI Biosyn HD SAE 30 - 14,000 Miles & 2.3 years'

This is RLI HD SAE 30, not 10w30 as stated in the report. I only had a gallon of it, so 0.75 qts of RLI 15w40 topped it off. Using the widman site, the combined 100c viscosity should have been ~ 11.3 cSt.

What can I say, FANTASTIC! This is the best run so far. I know metal ppm aren't indicative of wear, however this is the longest I've ever ran Biosyn and also has the lowest wear metals. SAE 30 is fine for me, I live in California. The spec sheet suggests this is likely a monograde that meets 10w30 winter rating like Amsoil ACD did.

The oil is definitely beginning to age as it has...
  • Like
 
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Not that I place any true value in that particular UOA service, but they are violating their own "total metals" methodology ...
In the Sept sample, they take the typical wear metals (13ppm) and then add the Mn (173ppm) for a total of 186ppm ... in 5.6k miles.
In the Nov sample, they take the typical wear metals (10ppm) and promptly ignore the Mn (27ppm) for a total of 10ppm ... in 5k miles.
Geeezzzz .... they can't even get their methodology straight ... not that I believe wear metals should be additive in the first place, in terms of analysis. But it's clear they aren't even consistent in their processes.

What is the reason for the methanol? A racing application? This isn't going to be something I have enough data, on regarding what would be statistically "normal" wear so I cannot comment in that regard. However, at face value, the typical metals (Fe, Al, Cr, Pb, Cu) seem reasonable.

It may be worth calling and asking them to rerun the samples, if you believe that the Zn and Mo are not at the levels expected regarding the additive.
 
dnewton3 said:
Not that I place any true value in that particular UOA service, but they are violating their own "total metals" methodology ...
In the Sept sample, they take the typical wear metals (13ppm) and then add the Mn (173ppm) for a total of 186ppm ... in 5.6k miles.
In the Nov sample, they take the typical wear metals (10ppm) and promptly ignore the Mn (27ppm) for a total of 10ppm ... in 5k miles.
Geeezzzz .... they can't even get their methodology straight ... not that I believe wear metals should be additive in the first place, in terms of analysis. But it's clear they aren't even consistent in their processes.

What is the reason for the methanol? A racing application? This isn't going to be something I have enough data, on regarding what would be statistically "normal" wear so I cannot comment in that regard. However, at face value, the typical metals (Fe, Al, Cr, Pb, Cu) seem reasonable.

It may be worth calling and asking them to rerun the samples, if you believe that the Zn and Mo are not at the levels expected regarding the additive.
Click to expand...
I saw the total metals thing, I thought they nixed it because of the prior MMT usage explanation and the dramatic decrease. Still, it was odd and I did a double take when the math didn't math. The tester is Speediagnostix and their lab seems to be a smaller operation out in Ohio.

The methanol is for a higher boost daily driver, to help get standard 93 octane up a bit more since no E85 is available locally. I'm running ~22 psi at ~20 degrees of timing and don't want to risk even the slightest detonation. Pretty much +9psi and +6 timing and roughly +180whp/+280ft-lb over stock. I've got fueling set so roughly 20% of my combustion volume while in boost is methanol. The methanol does not spray during normal unloaded driving. I actually wound up with this setup as more of a precaution than anything, as one of my prior tuners messed up the knock calibration tables and I chased massive nonexistent knock corrections for a year.

CleverUserName said:
I’ve used the RLI HD 15w40 blended with the 10w30 and SAE 30. The 15w40 by itself is very heavy and has a higher HTHS than I need. In my opinion it is their flagship oil and has fantastic properties.

I’ve also used the booster pak as well. My virgin analysis are posted on this forum.

The first time I used booster pak the expected Antimony was lower than expected, but since then it is very close when blended by % of total oil volume.

RLI oils don’t have Moly, they use Antimony DTC as the multifunctional additive. If you want to see the Antimony in PPM you need to use Polaris or Oil Analyzers from Amsoil. Every sample I’ve ever ran on their HD 10w30, 15w40 or their excellent SAE30 oils has been very consistent and I always used oil analyzers test kits.
Click to expand...
I may wind up switching to Amsoil testing since I'm switching to Amsoil 5w-40 for my next change. The price per kit is certainly a lot better.
I wonder if the Moly numbers I have are a holdover from prior oil changes, interesting to see it hang around so long. I used the Booster Pack mainly for the zinc it was supposed to add- in my engine the cams apparently take a beating at higher torque numbers and the margin for error in lubrication is a lot lower.

I didn't have any real issues with RLI aside from their lack of communication. I've used their oils for about 7 years and never had an issue besides their checkout process going awry and them not shipping to the correct address. I was using 5w and 15w-40 in this car because I was running near-zero backpressure on the turbos, something that sometimes causes oil seepage into the exhaust. It did not occur under RLI HDMO/SHP. In fact my last two changes have shown less than half a quart of consumption per 5000 miles.


CleverUserName said:
The high oxidation value of > 100 is indicative of RLI + booster pak although higher than I would expect. I believe the base RLI HD oils are around 85 in my sample with 2.5% booster pak. By my calculation your booster pak addition was 3.4% of the total volume added.

This above may also indicate a calibration issue with analysis.

C

Thread 'RLI 10w40 Homebrew Bio-SynXtra HD Low Ash VOA'

The 10w30 RLI I got was kinda low on the cSt @ 100 so I decided to mix it with the 15w40 to make it a 10w40. I also wanted to see how two multigrade oils of the same formulation would blend together. Kinda like an experiment.

50/50 Homebrew Blend of RLI Bio-SynXtra HD Low Ash 10w30 and 15w40.

Recipe:

60 mL of RLI 10w30
60 mL of RLI 15w40
3 mL of RLI Bio-Syn Booster Pack (2.5% by volume)

I have a small lab at work. We have beakers, pipettes, and magnetic stirrers. I think my measurements were pretty accurate. I mixed it for about 2-3 minutes with the biggest magnetic stirrer we had. I...

Did you thoroughly shake your oil jugs prior to use?

Even at 14K miles the oxidation was < 90.

C

Thread 'OZ Tuned 2014 Cruze Diesel (Opel A20DTH) - RLI Biosyn HD SAE 30 - 14,000 Miles & 2.3 years'

This is RLI HD SAE 30, not 10w30 as stated in the report. I only had a gallon of it, so 0.75 qts of RLI 15w40 topped it off. Using the widman site, the combined 100c viscosity should have been ~ 11.3 cSt.

What can I say, FANTASTIC! This is the best run so far. I know metal ppm aren't indicative of wear, however this is the longest I've ever ran Biosyn and also has the lowest wear metals. SAE 30 is fine for me, I live in California. The spec sheet suggests this is likely a monograde that meets 10w30 winter rating like Amsoil ACD did.

The oil is definitely beginning to age as it has...
  • Like
Click to expand...
I did not thoroughly shake them prior to use, I actually didn't know they needed to be shaken at all. They got a pretty rough ride to the shop both times though.
 
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Suburbazine said:
I saw the total metals thing, I thought they nixed it because of the prior MMT usage explanation and the dramatic decrease. Still, it was odd and I did a double take when the math didn't math. The tester is Speediagnostix and their lab seems to be a smaller operation out in Ohio.

The methanol is for a higher boost daily driver, to help get standard 93 octane up a bit more since no E85 is available locally. I'm running ~22 psi at ~20 degrees of timing and don't want to risk even the slightest detonation. Pretty much +9psi and +6 timing and roughly +180whp/+280ft-lb over stock. I've got fueling set so roughly 20% of my combustion volume while in boost is methanol. The methanol does not spray during normal unloaded driving. I actually wound up with this setup as more of a precaution than anything, as one of my prior tuners messed up the knock calibration tables and I chased massive nonexistent knock corrections for a year.


I may wind up switching to Amsoil testing since I'm switching to Amsoil 5w-40 for my next change. The price per kit is certainly a lot better.
I wonder if the Moly numbers I have are a holdover from prior oil changes, interesting to see it hang around so long. I used the Booster Pack mainly for the zinc it was supposed to add- in my engine the cams apparently take a beating at higher torque numbers and the margin for error in lubrication is a lot lower.

I didn't have any real issues with RLI aside from their lack of communication. I've used their oils for about 7 years and never had an issue besides their checkout process going awry and them not shipping to the correct address. I was using 5w and 15w-40 in this car because I was running near-zero backpressure on the turbos, something that sometimes causes oil seepage into the exhaust. It did not occur under RLI HDMO/SHP. In fact my last two changes have shown less than half a quart of consumption per 5000 miles.



I did not thoroughly shake them prior to use, I actually didn't know they needed to be shaken at all. They got a pretty rough ride to the shop both times though.
Click to expand...

I’ve ordered RLI from Zoro.com. No issues with delivery. I also ordered booster pak in a gallon jug, much better deal but you may need to order that directly from them as Amazon doesn’t carry it anymore.

I wouldn’t take those 2 oil analysis you have as gospel because they don’t jive with any of the results I’ve seen using their oils in 10 different tests since 2018. I would send off a sample to oil analyzers to verify. It looks like a calibration issue or your samples were switched at the lab.

The moly is leftover from your previous oils. The RLI website has a PDS for booster pak and it does not contain any moly, it does boost ZDDP and has a slug of antimony DTC. There are recommended guidelines for how much booster pak to add based on horsepower. The most I’ve ever added is 13% booster pak to Delvac ESP. Here is the thread:

C

Thread 'Delvac 1 ESP 5w40 CJ-4 Formula + 13.2% RLI Biosyn Booster Pak Blended HDEO.'

This is my 2nd time using RLI Booster Pak. 1st time, from an 8 oz bottle added at 2.5% yielded ~ 85 PPM of additional Antimony DTC to the base oil. Booster pak is advertised at 8400 PPM and this result yielded about 1/2 the expected result from of the advertised concentration.

I purchased a gallon of Booster Pak off Amazon and mixed it with Delvac 1 ESP 5w40 (CJ-4 formula). This is the superior, old PAO based D1 which doesn't have any moly and has an advertised 100c viscosity of 14.7 cSt and 4.1 HTHS. I removed 500 mL of oil from the gallon jug using a graduated cylinder, and replaced it...
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RLI is a high density lubricant due to the 25%+ TMP ester content, the HTHS viscosity typically is a grade higher than you’d expect. The RLI 15w40 is 5.2 cP which is what you’d see with a 15w50 or 20w50. It is very heavy and has a high VI. Amsoil doesn’t make anything like it. Nobody does, the RLI is really in a class by itself.

You should only need to shake the jugs if they’ve been sitting or in storage. Any oil that is not fresh should be shaken to ensure the additives that settled are in solution prior to use. If not, it could also explain why your analysis are inconsistent.
 
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I'll be taking a 5000 mile sample on Amsoil and depending on how it goes, I may switch back to RLI for the next actual oil change. I'm thinking an oil sample will show if I'm good to go for an extended drain interval with just a filter change. RLI had told me they wouldn't recommend running any of their oils beyond the 7000 mile mark, but I've also never taken a sample with the intent to check for an extended ODI either. I've heard that the Amsoil may be good to 25k or more, but in my application I'm taking that with the whole block of salt.

I've used RLI for so long based on the data that they were extremely high quality synthetic, but only recently started taking samples to verify that I didn't have engine problems. Then Speediagnostix basically said that there's something wrong with the oil quality last sample and I couldn't get any answers. But if it's a lab quality issue, I will give RLI another shot. I've ordered an Oil Analyzers kit and will do a head-to-head between the labs on the current oil sample.
 
Suburbazine said:
I'll be taking a 5000 mile sample on Amsoil and depending on how it goes, I may switch back to RLI for the next actual oil change. I'm thinking an oil sample will show if I'm good to go for an extended drain interval with just a filter change. RLI had told me they wouldn't recommend running any of their oils beyond the 7000 mile mark, but I've also never taken a sample with the intent to check for an extended ODI either. I've heard that the Amsoil may be good to 25k or more, but in my application I'm taking that with the whole block of salt.

I've used RLI for so long based on the data that they were extremely high quality synthetic, but only recently started taking samples to verify that I didn't have engine problems. Then Speediagnostix basically said that there's something wrong with the oil quality last sample and I couldn't get any answers. But if it's a lab quality issue, I will give RLI another shot. I've ordered an Oil Analyzers kit and will do a head-to-head between the labs on the current oil sample.
Click to expand...

I ran RLI to 14k miles and 2.3 years but I wouldn’t recommend doing it to anyone else, nor would I run Amsoil to 25k either. There are 2 many variables. Ive also never seen a OCI go to 15k with synthetic oil on a car or light truck that didn’t show signs of degradation.

I have no idea if this is a bad batch of RLI 15w40, bottles thar didn’t get mixed up or a calibration issue at the lab. From now on, I recommend you do a virgin sample of each new oil that you try out. This will allow you to catch these things early. And always get your oil up to room temperature and shake vigorously prior to changing it. Inadequate mixing doesn’t explain why the oxidation is 25% higher than normal, that must be a calibration or blending issue.

With that said, both of your analysis look great considering the mods done to your stinger.
 
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