List of oils by base-oil-quality index: a ranking

[Gokhan]

Originally Posted By: Rockrz

How come they just tested Amsoil OE and not their higher grade oils?

It turns out that PQIA did test Amsoil Signature Series 5W-30 in 2012 but I hadn't gone that far back in PQIA tests when I made the list. Here are the numbers. Note that 2017 Amsoil Signature Series 5W-20 using Amsoil data exactly ties the discontinued 2013 Pennzoil Ultra 5W-30 using POIA data:

Code:

BOQI	DV-30   NOACK   Date    Oil

79.2	3,827	6.60	2013	Pennzoil Ultra™ 5W-30 API SN ILSAC GF-5 (PQIA data, discontinued)
79.2    4,008   6.30    2017    Amsoil Signature Series 5W-20 (Amsoil data, 2017 formula)
77.4    3,398   7.60    2012    Amsoil Signature Series 5W-30 (PQIA data, 2012 formula)
67.4    3,954   7.50    2017    Amsoil Signature Series 5W-30 (Amsoil data, 2017 formula)
37.1	4,945	10.90	2013	Amsoil OE 5W-30 API SN ILSAC GF-5 (PQIA data, 2013 formula)
?       ?       ?       2018    Reformulated Amsoil Signature Series 5W-20 (Amsoil data, 2018 formula)
?       ?       ?       2018    Reformulated Amsoil Signature Series 5W-30 (Amsoil data, 2018 formula)

Originally Posted By: Wick

Those nubers are from Signiture Series just last week they were formulating with those numbers

Do you mean that there is a new version of Amsoil Signature Series coming up? It will be interesting to see how their BOQI numbers will look like but they seem to have been coming down over time.

 

[IllinoisSparky]

Using that formula, AMSOIL SS 5W-30 would be second best at 77.44, using data from the PQIA site. You must have missed that one from their website when assembling your table. Glad to know that 2 products I like to use would be the top 2, even if the science is debated. Edit: Didn't see the ^^^^ post with same calculation.

 

[OVERKILL]

Just to revive this thread and add an entry: Redline lists their VII-free 5w-30 as having the following specs: CCS Viscosity, Poise, @ °C 60@-30 (6,000cP) NOACK Evaporation Loss,1hr @ 482°F (250°C), 6% This is a PAO/POE blend with no VII's. It's score on the Index is 55.56 Their 5w-20 would be 41.67.

 

[Gokhan]

Originally Posted By: OVERKILL

Just to revive this thread and add an entry: Redline lists their VII-free 5w-30 as having the following specs: CCS Viscosity, Poise, @ °C 60@-30 (6,000cP) NOACK Evaporation Loss,1hr @ 482°F (250°C), 6% This is a PAO/POE blend with no VII's. It's score on the Index is 55.56 Their 5w-20 would be 41.67.

Thanks. Do you know why CCS is so high? Chevron/Oronite presentation did not include the esters in its plots though. They had Group I - IV and GTL. Therefore, I don't know how esters would do in the BOQI calculation. Group V is so ambiguous that we don't know if it's good or bad.

 

[OVERKILL]

Originally Posted By: Gokhan

Originally Posted By: OVERKILL

Just to revive this thread and add an entry: Redline lists their VII-free 5w-30 as having the following specs: CCS Viscosity, Poise, @ °C 60@-30 (6,000cP) NOACK Evaporation Loss,1hr @ 482°F (250°C), 6% This is a PAO/POE blend with no VII's. It's score on the Index is 55.56 Their 5w-20 would be 41.67.

Thanks. Do you know why CCS is so high for a purely PAO oil?

The HTHS is 3.5cP, so it is on the heavy end of the 30 scale. Look at it this way: SpectraSyn 8 has a CCS of 4,800cP and this oil is 11.9cSt, a fair bit heavier than that PAO base.

 

[Gokhan]

Originally Posted By: OVERKILL

The HTHS is 3.5cP, so it is on the heavy end of the 30 scale.

OK, but then why is the NOACK so high? You would think it would be around 4% for such a thick PAO oil. Perhaps they used a very cheap PAO? Or the esters affecting the CCS and/or NOACK?

 

[OVERKILL]

Originally Posted By: Gokhan

Originally Posted By: OVERKILL

The HTHS is 3.5cP, so it is on the heavy end of the 30 scale.

OK, but then why is the NOACK so high? You would think it would be around 4% for such a thick PAO oil. Perhaps they used a very cheap PAO? Or the esters affecting the CCS and/or NOACK?

Perhaps the additives? That base has a 4.1% NOACK, and ESTEREX 111 (11.9cSt) has a 1.4% NOACK. It's a finished oil, so there is definitely the possibility of something in the add pack being more volatile than the bases.

 

[Gokhan]

Originally Posted By: OVERKILL

Look at it this way: SpectraSyn 8 has a CCS of 4,800cP and this oil is 11.9cSt, a fair bit heavier than that PAO base.

And SpectraSyn™ 8 has 4.3% NOACK and SpectraSyn™ 10 has 3.2% NOACK. This is an example of a BOQI gotcha case -- how the BOQI catches marketing gimmicks.

 

[Gokhan]

Originally Posted By: OVERKILL

Perhaps the additives? That base has a 4.1% NOACK, and ESTEREX 111 (11.9cSt) has a 1.4% NOACK. It's a finished oil, so there is definitely the possibility of something in the add pack being more volatile than the bases.

OK, we'll give the Red Line the benefit of the doubt. Not comfortable with all the additives evaporating out of the oil though.

 

[OVERKILL]

Originally Posted By: Gokhan

Originally Posted By: OVERKILL

Perhaps the additives? That base has a 4.1% NOACK, and ESTEREX 111 (11.9cSt) has a 1.4% NOACK. It's a finished oil, so there is definitely the possibility of something in the add pack being more volatile than the bases.

OK, we'll give the Red Line the benefit of the doubt. Not comfortable with all the additives evaporating out of the oil though.

LOL!

 

[Gokhan]

In any case Red Line 5W-30 with BOQI = 56 ranks pretty high up there. I wonder why their 5W-20 got only BOQI = 42. Red Line's reported NOACK and CCS values both have only one significant figure. Therefore, there is a lot of uncertainty there. It's probably poor test data to calculate the BOQI on.

 

[TheKracken]

I just switched my truck to 0w20 amsoil and so far so good. Only thing ive noticed is the idle pressure once fully warmed up is on the low side, hopefully this is not an issue.

 

[Gokhan]

Originally Posted By: TheKracken

I just switched my truck to 0w20 amsoil and so far so good. Only thing ive noticed is the idle pressure once fully warmed up is on the low side, hopefully this is not an issue.

I'm sure it's OK. The following are the specs for my 4A-LC engine in normal operating temperature: Oil pressure at idle speed: More than 4.3 psi Oil pressure at 3,000 RPM: 36 - 71 psi

 

[4WD]

Name three marketing gimmicks you write of?

 

[Garak]

Originally Posted By: Gokhan

This is an example of a BOQI gotcha case -- how the BOQI catches marketing gimmicks.

Or back to the drawing board?

Originally Posted By: Gokhan

Red Line's reported NOACK and CCS values both have only one significant figure. Therefore, there is a lot of uncertainty there. It's probably poor test data to calculate the BOQI on.

Red Line is more careful in their reporting of this data, so you don't want to use it for the calculation. When another oil company publishes an extra significant figure, you latch onto it, even when it's certainty is dubious?

 

[jongies3]

Guess I'm switching back to Ultra 5W-30 next change! Makes me wonder what I should use in my 7.3 diesel now though, perhaps I'll just go back to T 15W-40 but kinda want that cold start ability of the synthetic. When did FRAM market a line of motor oil? I recognized all on that list but that, are we talking about the same company that makes oil filters?

 

[Gokhan]

Originally Posted By: jongies3

Guess I'm switching back to Ultra 5W-30 next change!

The top-ranked Pennzoil Ultra is discontinued. The current version is Pennzoil Ultra Platinum, which is entirely different than Pennzoil Ultra (discontinued) but very similar to the current version of Pennzoil Platinum.

 

[Garak]

Originally Posted By: Gokhan

OK, we'll give the Red Line the benefit of the doubt. Not comfortable with all the additives evaporating out of the oil though.

So, if a hypothesized relationship isn't predictive of reality at all, we ignore the data and keep the hypothesis intact, as long as it gives us the results we want, irrespective of the relationship to the data at hand?

 

[PimTac]

I missed the education of how additives evaporate out of the oil. The uoa's we see look just like the VOA. I believe he has me blocked anyway. It would be good for him to explain this.

 

[Gokhan]

Originally Posted By: PimTac

I missed the education of how additives evaporate out of the oil. The uoa's we see look just like the VOA. I believe he has me blocked anyway. It would be good for him to explain this.

No, I didn't block you. That was brought up by OVERKILL. There are volatile and nonvolatile additives. The elemental metals you see in the UOAs usually come from nonvolatile, inorganic additives. They also use organic solvents to dissolve the additives and these are volatile. I believe that's what OVERKILL was referring to and it's a valid point.