Dodge Challenger 5.7 oil

You won’t use Fram? Stick around. You might learn something. Research Fram Ultras. I’m doing you a favour. :)
The FRAM Ultra is an excellent oil filter. Every filter manufacturer has their top of the line, mid-range, and low-end offerings. The same could be said about Purolator: nothing below their BOSS lineup is worth buying.

The manual doesn't state that 5W-20 "must be used" in the 5.7L, however it is recommended and they also state that "Lubricants which do not have both the engine oil certification mark and the correct SAE viscosity grade number should not be used." I believe some of the confusion is understanding FCA's definition of "SAE viscosity grade". Since there is no wording that allows the use of 0W-20 as an alternative I believe they're saying 5W-20 is the only " SAE viscosity grade" recommended for the 5.7L. The 3.6L engine has the exact same wording however the recommended "SAE viscosity grade" for this engine is 0W-20 and there is no wording allowing the use of 5W-20 in place of 0W-20. The Jeep owners manual is the same, the only recommended "SAE viscosity grade" for the 2.4L engine is 0W-20 and for the 3.2L engine it's 5W-20, with no allowance for substitutions in either engine.

Anyone with a basic understanding of oil grades understands that both 0W-20 and 5w-20 are the same "SAE viscosity grade" with different winter ratings, but for reasons only known to FCA they seem to classify them as different "SAE viscosity grades" to be used in different engines and the two are not interchangeable.

Just a theory to consider and I'm sure yogithecat will have a response claiming that I'm preaching and pontificating.

Do you ever get tired of preaching this stuff and pontificating the sanctity of what FCA came up with, a car manufacturer that produces engines based on ancient (by today's standards) designs? Did you know that their main concern always is the average fleet MPG? This company is in the stone age when it comes to R&D, and they haven't spent any money on it. They are desperately hanging on to what they have, and thinning out the recommended oil viscosity is one of the few things they have left. The problem is that they can't really go beyond 0W-20.

Let me back peddle to my oil cooler issue: I don't need an oil cooler to run thicker oil. I need one to be able to run the factory specified 5W-20 while towing. Otherwise, when my oil goes up to 250F ~ 280F while pulling 7000 lbs on a mountain, I'm dealing with about 3~4 CST (at best) viscosity while the oil itself oxidizes at an alarming rate. Besides wearing out bearings and bushings prematurely in my engine (never mind everything else), do you know what happens to the oil under those circumstances? It creates sludge and polymerizes everywhere else where a thin layer of oil is left on cooldown. Imagine if I did this on the factory specified Mopar filter, it would be even worse. Quite honestly, I would rather use 5W-20 because I wouldn't have to spend more time warming up my truck every day before leaving. It has better flow characteristics and provides better internal cooling, amongst other things. If I install an oil cooler, even the expensive Mopar solution with the 45-degree filter adapter, I can have my warranty voided (which will be up in July of this year anyway) because it counts as engine modification. Using 0W-40 motor oil to deal with the harsher conditions of towing in the absence of an oil cooler is actually a plausible explanation. I even installed a Mopar oil filler cap that says "0W-40 - Synthetic oil recommended."

Finally, do you know the difference between 0W-20 and 5W-20, other than cold temperature properties? It is a fact that most 0W-20 oils are crap with very high NOACK values, made of cheap base oils. To make 0W-20, the oil formulator has to balance base oil quality and the amount of additives they put into that oil. And the easiest way to make 0W-20 is to take out additives like ZDDP. That's why, for example, Mobil 1 EP 0W-20 has 650ppm of Zinc, while Mobil 1 EP 5W-20 has 850ppm of Zinc. The catch here is that Mobil 1 EP 0W-20 is one of the very best 0W-20 oils out there because it's mostly made of PAO/POE, and that's why @OVERKILL uses it in his truck. The base oil is so good that it compensates for the lower amount of ZDDP in the oil. While the 5.7 HEMI doesn't need much ZDDP, it's still a good sacrificial anti-wear additive to have, especially in less expensive motor oils that don't have modern organic anti-wear additives.

At the end of the day, everyone can and should use what they think is right for their vehicle. Oil-related engine failures are not very common these days. People like myself are commonly known as "poor". No, I am not middle class. I am poor. As such, I have to make a vehicle last a very long time and get the most out of it. I'd rather do my due diligence in maintaining my vehicles because, honestly, I don't have much faith in the manufacturer's warranty, especially when it comes to RAM, as they will gladly ram the repair bill up my rear-end rather than properly perform a warranty repair. Just ask some of those who had lifter failures. Now, if you want to use 5W-20 or whatever oil in your vehicle, that's fine. Just don't preach to others what they should do. I don't tell others what they should or shouldn't put in their crankcase. If I'm asked, I'll give my opinion, especially if I had some experience with a particular vehicle. However, there is no such thing as a terrible motor oil anymore that shouldn't be used. Even Super Tech and Kirkland are decent options. Maybe people shouldn't rush to buy Dolar Store branded motor oil, but that's a different conversation.

I think the API section is separate, that's the bit I'm referencing, as it has its own heading.

FCA could have done a better job writing that section of the owner's manual, especially for pickup trucks.

Oh I've read about many, but just don't like them in general sorry.

Let me put it this way: you're more likely to grenade a HEMI with an "all original" Mopar paper filter with a botched drain-back valve than with a FRAM Ultra oil filter.
 
HOLY COW!! Talk about pontificating.
I see your point, and probably I got too attached to that word because I find it funny in relation to motor oil. Yes, I probably went a wee bit overboard.

@farrarfan1, sorry, but every time I see someone pointing out repeatedly, 5W-20 absolutely has to be used in a RAM/Dodge/Chrysler vehicle with a 5.7 HEMI engine, it just ruffles my feathers. I don't think that I have read about any other manufacturer who insists so much on an oil viscosity that now it's being regurgitated at the forum level on the internet. Even I used to believe it at one point until I decided to learn a bit more about the subject and try different things for myself.
 
Finally, do you know the difference between 0W-20 and 5W-20, other than cold temperature properties? It is a fact that most 0W-20 oils are crap with very high NOACK values, made of cheap base oils.


Let’s focus on this one part of your statement. Based on everything I’ve seen here, 0w20 oils tend to be made of more Group 3,4, and 5 components. Also, the Noack requirements are the same in order to meet the standards.
 
I see your point, and probably I got too attached to that word because I find it funny in relation to motor oil. Yes, I probably went a wee bit overboard.

@farrarfan1, sorry, but every time I see someone pointing out repeatedly, 5W-20 absolutely has to be used in a RAM/Dodge/Chrysler vehicle with a 5.7 HEMI engine, it just ruffles my feathers. I don't think that I have read about any other manufacturer who insists so much on an oil viscosity that now it's being regurgitated at the forum level on the internet. Even I used to believe it at one point until I decided to learn a bit more about the subject and try different things for myself.
I’ve not told anyone what to use, or not to use. I’m just discussing what’s in the owners manual.
 
Let’s focus on this one part of your statement. Based on everything I’ve seen here, 0w20 oils tend to be made of more Group 3,4, and 5 components. Also, the Noack requirements are the same in order to meet the standards.
I assumed that I would get some flack for my statement about 0W-20 oils, and you're absolutely right in your statement. I was trying to make that not every manufacturer spends the same money on manufacturing 0W-20 motor oil. My personal opinion is that 0W-20 quality varies more between manufacturers than, say, 5W-20. It's easier to find 5W-20 oils with low NOACK than it is 0W-20. After looking at various UOAs, VOAs, and publicly available spec sheets, that's just a personal observation.

I didn't have any particular interest in 0W-20 oils until my brother bought a new 2020 SONATA 2.5 GDI SE (cheapest model). The oil cap said 0W-20, so I looked a bit into 0W-20 oils. Of course, the owner's manual allows for up to 10W-30, and considering that Hyundai engines aren't the greatest, at least when it comes to fuel dilution, he decided to go with Castrol EDGE EP 5W-30. On paper, at least, it looks like a great option. I guess we'll see.

Just do an early change with 5w20 PP and keep the jugs, wink, wink, 😉

I don't think that's necessary. From what I've learned over the years about warranty repairs at the dealer, at least when it comes to Hyundais, is that they care less about what oil viscosity you used and more about timely oil changes and how your engine looks on the inside at the time of the claim. Let's say that you could void your warranty faster by destroying your engine with a $2 oil filter than by running a thicker oil.

I’ve not told anyone what to use, or not to use. I’m just discussing what’s in the owners manual.

I got that part. However, that's how it comes across. That manual needs an update, just like they classify motor oils by blessing what's allowed with their "MS" approvals. One of the funniest things about that is that Pennzoil says "recommended for MS-6395", not "approved for." I think that both the owner's manual and Pennzoil are pretty loose with their wording. I also believe that Stellantis is doing an abysmal job communicating to owners how they should properly maintain their engines due to various fears, especially for trucks. How about: "it's okay to run a thicker oil when towing heavy loads," or "change your oil early if you've been hammering your engine to keep things clean." Or how about explaining to people that turning off MDS won't be beneficial to their engines because that's when the lifters get the most amount of oil? Telling the ECM to turn off MDS won't do anything. Now, if you replaced the MDS lifters with normal ones and the solenoids with plugs, well, that's a different story. We have to find out all this stuff on our own to get more miles out of these trucks (or vehicles). This is why I get triggered when oil viscosity in HEMIs comes up because it's by far not the only factor in getting the most life out of them.

And lastly, I apologize if I offended you in any way.
 
Have not owned a Hemi pickup in a good while … and I had to really get to know the changes made in the GM 5.3L when it went 0w20 … it was not just a paper change at all … real mechanical support
I don’t tow heavy and always figure on bumping up a grade post warranty …

My son just got a year end deal on a 2020 Ram … nice truck, but will hold my impressions for vehicle threads
 
Exactly my takeaway and why I shared it. Why they have to make these things such a gong show is beyond me 🤷‍♂️
When I had a 2015 Ford … was shocked to find severe duty in a section of the manual far removed from standard PM.
I mean what’s 150k vs 30k among friends …?🤷‍♂️
 
Exactly my takeaway and why I shared it. Why they have to make these things such a gong show is beyond me 🤷‍♂️

I believe that the added confusion is meant to drive more business to the dealership. Oil changes have become quite expensive, and when coupled with the confusion in the owner's manual, most people will give up and have someone else do it for them. With so many daily problems in our lives, motor oil is not something that 99% of people concern themselves with. We are the minority here on BITOG debating various motor oils like others debate fine wine.
 
When I had a 2015 Ford … was shocked to find severe duty in a section of the manual far removed from standard PM.
I mean what’s 150k vs 30k among friends …?🤷‍♂️

At least you checked ;) Probably most wouldn't.
 
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I believe that the added confusion is meant to drive more business to the dealership. Oil changes have become quite expensive, and when coupled with the confusion in the owner's manual, most people will give up and have someone else do it for them. With so many daily problems in our lives, motor oil is not something that 99% of people concern themselves with. We are the minority here on BITOG debating various motor oils like others debate fine wine.

Yes, it's like the various sections intentionally contradict each other, which is a bit silly.
 
My 19 Ram with the Hemi gets pennzoil platinum 5w-20.

Maybe it changed for 2021 but the Wife’s 21 GC with the 3.6 calls for a 0w-20. I’ve got a few jugs of platinum for it too.
 
Not to sound dumb....but has anybody used like 3 quarts of 5w 20 and 3 5w 30 or 4 quarts of 5w20 and two 10w 30 of the same brand of course... to get a thicker viscosity of oil?
 
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