Dodge Challenger 5.7 oil

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YogiTheCat said:
There is that Pennzoil endorsement again... anyway... And the lie about having to use 5W-20 in the 5.7 HEMI for MDS to work, which is BS.

For the most part, I don't have a problem using 5W-20 in a properly built 5.7 HEMI. Except that in my 2016 RAM 1500 FCA (now Stellantis) decided to cut some corners. They couldn't fit the cheaper oil cooler that they use in the Charger and Challenger for the 5.7 HEMI because of the electronic power steering. The version that works requires a 45-degree filter adapter along with additional coolant pining, and that entire package is sold by Mopar for about $320. I'm sure that for RAM it would have been less than that. Still, the beancounters decided not to include it for the RAM 1500.

In essence, a Charger or Challenger equipped with the 5.7 HEMI has better oil cooling than a full-size pickup truck rated for towing about 9000 pounds. I have the "budget" 3.21 LSD diff. Otherwise, it would have probably been 11,000 pounds. I can tell you that when towing 3000~4000 pounds on a straight road the oil temps shoot to ~245F ~250F easily, and the transmission likes to start in 7th gear way more than in 8th all the time. Anyway, I decided not to bother installing the Mopar cooler in that tight space, and instead, I'm using a bigger oil filter and 0W-40 so that I don't grenade my own engine under load.

Now I wonder what kind of backward thinking goes into their decision-making process when they decided to provide better cooling for a passenger car than a pickup truck? @OVERKILL for example has a factory-installed oil cooler on his 2019 RAM 1500, so he can easily run 0W-20 in his motor all day long, and that's while towing 5000 pounds or more.

[Edit]

Look at the schematics below the 45-degree adapter: https://www.moparpartsinc.com/p/ADAPTER-Oil-Filter/66764664/04893315AC.html

If you add up everything needed to install this on my 5.7 HEMI, it's about $320 in parts.
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The owner's manual is pretty clear in stating that you must use 5W-20 in the 5.7L regardless if you think it's BS. During the warranty period, it would be a no brainer to me to use what they recommend just in case you do have an engine issue and they want proof of what oil was used.

The majority of people will never have an issue running a 5W-20 in the engine and most will never own the vehicle long enough to see if running 5W-20 will have long term negative effects on the engine. I think a lot of people worry needlessly about this subject.
 
wtd said:
The owner's manual is pretty clear in stating that you must use 5W-20 in the 5.7L regardless if you think it's BS. During the warranty period, it would be a no brainer to me to use what they recommend just in case you do have an engine issue and they want proof of what oil was used.

The majority of people will never have an issue running a 5W-20 in the engine and most will never own the vehicle long enough to see if running 5W-20 will have long term negative effects on the engine. I think a lot of people worry needlessly about this subject.
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Mobil recommends their 0w-20 now, and I suspect we'll see it very shortly carrying the appropriate approval now with the Stellantis changeover.
 
wtd said:
The owner's manual is pretty clear in stating that you must use 5W-20 in the 5.7L regardless if you think it's BS. During the warranty period, it would be a no brainer to me to use what they recommend just in case you do have an engine issue and they want proof of what oil was used.

The majority of people will never have an issue running a 5W-20 in the engine and most will never own the vehicle long enough to see if running 5W-20 will have long term negative effects on the engine. I think a lot of people worry needlessly about this subject.
Click to expand...
You obviously missed the part where I clearly explained that because the bean counters at Stellantis (former FCA) decided to save a few bucks, they didn't install an oil cooler on my 5.7 HEMI. So now, I can't run 5w-20 in the southern US while towing several thousand pounds. Conviniently, they left that part out of the owner's manual. I'm glad though that every Charger and Challenger equiped with a 5.7 HEMI comes with an oil cooler installed. No worries though, 2018 and newer RAM 1500 pickup trucks come with an oil cooler installed. Thank God they found a way and enough room to install the one that comes on the Charger/Challenger because it's cheaper than the one with the 45 degree adapter. I hope this settles it.
 
OVERKILL said:
Mobil recommends their 0w-20 now, and I suspect we'll see it very shortly carrying the appropriate approval now with the Stellantis changeover.
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Pennzoil recommends 0w-20 as well. The 5.7 HEMI is happy as long as the oil viscosity is somewhere around 7 to 8 cSt. When you go lower than that for extended periods of time there is trouble. That's why it's important to have an oil cooler 😜
 
OVERKILL said:
Mobil recommends their 0w-20 now, and I suspect we'll see it very shortly carrying the appropriate approval now with the Stellantis changeover.
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Mobil might recommend 0W-20 but that doesn't mean that FCA will endorse that if it becomes a court case. The words "must use 5w20" in black and white is pretty powerful in court unless you have other written documentation from FCA that states 0W20 can be used in that engine for that year.

Obviously using 0w20 probably will have no effect on the engine or fuel management system but why give the manufacturer any reason to deny warranty if it becomes an issue.
YogiTheCat said:
You obviously missed the part where I clearly explained that because the bean counters at Stellantis (former FCA) decided to save a few bucks, they didn't install an oil cooler on my 5.7 HEMI. So now, I can't run 5w-20 in the southern US while towing several thousand pounds. Conviniently, they left that part out of the owner's manual. I'm glad though that every Charger and Challenger equiped with a 5.7 HEMI comes with an oil cooler installed. No worries though, 2018 and newer RAM 1500 pickup trucks come with an oil cooler installed. Thank God they found a way and enough room to install the one that comes on the Charger/Challenger because it's cheaper than the one with the 45 degree adapter. I hope this settles it.
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No, I did not miss that but the OP was asking about his 5.7L Challenger and that is the manual that you posted a link to in your post. Add an oil cooler to your truck if you are worried about it and want to run thicker oil.

My 2014 Mustang GT does not have an oil cooler while the F150's with the same 5.0L do. I can add one to my car for less than $200 if I wanted one but I don't worry about it and still run 5W-20 in it even though many people on the internet say that this engine should run 5W-30.
 
wtd said:
Mobil might recommend 0W-20 but that doesn't mean that FCA will endorse that if it becomes a court case. The words "must use 5w20" in black and white is pretty powerful in court unless you have other written documentation from FCA that states 0W20 can be used in that engine for that year.

Obviously using 0w20 probably will have no effect on the engine or fuel management system but why give the manufacturer any reason to deny warranty if it becomes an issue.

No, I did not miss that but the OP was asking about his 5.7L Challenger and that is the manual that you posted a link to in your post. Add an oil cooler to your truck if you are worried about it and want to run thicker oil.

My 2014 Mustang GT does not have an oil cooler while the F150's with the same 5.0L do. I can add one to my car for less than $200 if I wanted one but I don't worry about it and still run 5W-20 in it even though many people on the internet say that this engine should run 5W-30.
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If Stellantis approves it to the same MS spec as the 5w-20, I doubt they'd have a leg to stand on. I use the 0w-20 because it's a better oil.
 
wtd said:
The words "must use 5w20" in black and white is pretty powerful
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Can you point me in the right direction? Can’t find the word ‘must’ in my manual...


Engine Oil Viscosity (SAE Grade) — 5.7L Engine (1500/2500/3500 Models)
Mopar SAE 5W-20 engine oil approved to FCA Material Standard MS-6395 such as Pennzoil, Shell Helix or equivalent is recommended for all operating temperatures. This engine oil improves low temperature starting and vehicle fuel economy.
The engine oil filler cap also shows the recommended engine oil viscosity for your engine. For information on engine oil filler cap location, refer to the “Engine Compart- ment” illustration in this section.

Lubricants which do not have both the engine oil certification mark and the correct SAE viscosity grade number should not be used.
 
OilReport99 said:
Can you point me in the right direction? Can’t find the word ‘must’ in my manual...
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Don't mind him, he likes pontificating. Judging by his wording, he doesn't understand how MDS works either. Oh well...

OVERKILL said:
If Stellantis approves it to the same MS spec as the 5w-20, I doubt they'd have a leg to stand on. I use the 0w-20 because it's a better oil.
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They would be better off to just do away with the entire MS-6395 (at the very least) BS. Unless Stellantis can come up with something similar to Dexos, their oil "approvals" are a joke.
 
The manual doesn't state that 5W-20 "must be used" in the 5.7L, however it is recommended and they also state that "Lubricants which do not have both the engine oil certification mark and the correct SAE viscosity grade number should not be used." I believe some of the confusion is understanding FCA's definition of "SAE viscosity grade". Since there is no wording that allows the use of 0W-20 as an alternative I believe they're saying 5W-20 is the only " SAE viscosity grade" recommended for the 5.7L. The 3.6L engine has the exact same wording however the recommended "SAE viscosity grade" for this engine is 0W-20 and there is no wording allowing the use of 5W-20 in place of 0W-20. The Jeep owners manual is the same, the only recommended "SAE viscosity grade" for the 2.4L engine is 0W-20 and for the 3.2L engine it's 5W-20, with no allowance for substitutions in either engine.

Anyone with a basic understanding of oil grades understands that both 0W-20 and 5w-20 are the same "SAE viscosity grade" with different winter ratings, but for reasons only known to FCA they seem to classify them as different "SAE viscosity grades" to be used in different engines and the two are not interchangeable.

Just a theory to consider and I'm sure yogithecat will have a response claiming that I'm preaching and pontificating.
 
farrarfan1 said:
The manual doesn't state that 5W-20 "must be used" in the 5.7L, however it is recommended and they also state that "Lubricants which do not have both the engine oil certification mark and the correct SAE viscosity grade number should not be used." I believe some of the confusion is understanding FCA's definition of "SAE viscosity grade". Since there is no wording that allows the use of 0W-20 as an alternative I believe they're saying 5W-20 is the only " SAE viscosity grade" recommended for the 5.7L. The 3.6L engine has the exact same wording however the recommended "SAE viscosity grade" for this engine is 0W-20 and there is no wording allowing the use of 5W-20 in place of 0W-20. The Jeep owners manual is the same, the only recommended "SAE viscosity grade" for the 2.4L engine is 0W-20 and for the 3.2L engine it's 5W-20, with no allowance for substitutions in either engine.

Anyone with a basic understanding of oil grades understands that both 0W-20 and 5w-20 are the same "SAE viscosity grade" with different winter ratings, but for reasons only known to FCA they seem to classify them as different "SAE viscosity grades" to be used in different engines and the two are not interchangeable.

Just a theory to consider and I'm sure yogithecat will have a response claiming that I'm preaching and pontificating.
Click to expand...
Further confusing things, this is the preceding page:
Screen Shot 2021-01-31 at 11.52.03 AM.webp
 
farrarfan1 said:
If you're referring to the section under the 2500-3500 models I agree it's very confusing. Interesting that is on page 624 of your manual, mine only goes to page 516 and has no reference to the 2500 or 3500 models.
Click to expand...

I think the API section is separate, that's the bit I'm referencing, as it has its own heading.
 
OVERKILL said:
I think the API section is separate, that's the bit I'm referencing, as it has its own heading.
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Which leads one to believe all the grades listed in it are allowed, which isn't what is implied in the other sections. Agreed, very confusing.
 
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