Do people actually purchase new BMW's?

Originally Posted by edyvw
His is ZHP, in that condition, if possible to find in that condition, will not go below $25k.



25K was actually the initial number I typed but then deleted it and put down 15K. I just have never seen one that clean.

Originally Posted by edyvw
I actually enjoy driving in Chicago etc. People do not have time for kidding around. far better than here where driver on STOP sign waits jogger that is 200ft away. Jogger waves to driver to go, but no. School pick ups, where everyone wants not to park in front of entrance to school, but if they could somehow enter classroom with their Tahoe or Excursion they would. Chicago is nothing comapred to typical American suburbia.


Man I thought Colorado had the most normal drivers!
 
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Originally Posted by BMWTurboDzl

FYI..It's a regular E46. ZHP for coupe wasn't available until 2004 (MY05?). Still this is a nice specimen ZHP or not..

You are correct, mine is a ZSP.

With respect to the ZHP Autotrader listing for $17k, nice car but mine is superior. Not only is mine a one owner car, it's a ONE DRIVER car. And it's never once been driven in the rain, literally not once. Nor has it spent a single night parked outside, literally not once. Nor has it ever been used for commuting. I don't even take it to the grocery store. Basically, the only time it's outside is when it's being driven. The body, paint, interior, and mechanicals are virtually perfect.

And it's fully documented from the day I ordered it. I have every single receipt for all parts and supplies that I have installed and used, as well as mileage and dates for when something was done to it. I even have all the smog test reports, UOAs, alignment reports, magazine reviews, sales brochures, purchase agreements, etc. I have several hundred photos of the car over the course of my ownership, including pictures of various projects. You will not find a more documented, well cared for E46 anywhere.

Scott

List of modifications, every single one of them researched, chosen, and installed by me.

BBS CH 19x8.5, 35mm offset
Michelin Pilot Sport Cup 2; 235/35-19
Eibach Pro-Kit Springs
Bilstein Sport Struts/Shocks, E36 M3 Versions On Rear
BMW Motorsport Front Strut Tower Reinforcement Plates
Rogue Engineering Rear Shock Mounts
H&R Sport Adjustable Anti-Roll Bars, 27mm front, 21mm Rear
Turner Motorsports Adjustable, Ball Jointed Front Anti-Roll Bar Endlinks
Mason Engineering Adjustable, Spherical Bearing Rear Anti-Roll Bar Endlinks
Mason Engineering Front Strut Brace
BMW ZHP Front Control Arms
BMW M3 Engine Mounts
BMW M3 Transmission Mounts
Meyle HD 66mm Front Control Arm Bushings
BMW M3 Rear Control Arm Bushings
Turner Motorsports Rear Control Arm Bushing Limiters
BMW M3 Spherical Bearing Rear Lower/Outer Control Arm Bushings
Stoptech Stainless Steel Brake Lines F/R
BMW Motorsport Cross-drilled, Fully Floating Front Brake Rotors
Jurid Front Brake Pads
BMW M3 Rear Brake Pads
Turner Motorsports Brass Brake Caliper Bushings
Borla Catback Stainless Steel Exhaust
Meyle Heavy Duty Rear Differential Mounts
BMW ZHP Finned Rear Differential Cover/Cooler
BMW ZHP Shift Knob
B&M Short Shift Kit
UUC Stainless Steel, Weighted Shift Rod
Mason Engineering Quick Shift Geometry Clutch Pedal Arm
Stewart Engineering Water Pump
Rogue Engineering Underdrive Pulley Set
BMW M3 Trunk Lid Spoiler Lip
BMW Motorsport Alcantara Steering Wheel
Center Arm Rest Delete

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Originally Posted by SLO_Town
Originally Posted by BMWTurboDzl

FYI..It's a regular E46. ZHP for coupe wasn't available until 2004 (MY05?). Still this is a nice specimen ZHP or not..

You are correct, mine is a ZSP.

With respect to the ZHP Autotrader listing for $17k, nice car but mine is superior. Not only is mine a one owner car, it's a ONE DRIVER car. And it's never once been driven in the rain, literally not once. Nor has it spent a single night parked outside, literally not once. Nor has it ever been used for commuting. I don't even take it to the grocery store. Basically, the only time it's outside is when it's being driven. The body, paint, interior, and mechanicals are virtually perfect.

And it's fully documented from the day I ordered it. I have every single receipt for all parts and supplies that I have installed and used, as well as mileage and dates for when something was done to it. I even have all the smog test reports, UOAs, alignment reports, magazine reviews, sales brochures, purchase agreements, etc. I have several hundred photos of the car over the course of my ownership, including pictures of various projects. You will not find a more documented, well cared for E46 anywhere.

Scott

List of modifications, every single one of them researched, chosen, and installed by me.

BBS CH 19x8.5, 35mm offset
Michelin Pilot Sport Cup 2; 235/35-19
Eibach Pro-Kit Springs
Bilstein Sport Struts/Shocks, E36 M3 Versions On Rear
BMW Motorsport Front Strut Tower Reinforcement Plates
Rogue Engineering Rear Shock Mounts
H&R Sport Adjustable Anti-Roll Bars, 27mm front, 21mm Rear
Turner Motorsports Adjustable, Ball Jointed Front Anti-Roll Bar Endlinks
Mason Engineering Adjustable, Spherical Bearing Rear Anti-Roll Bar Endlinks
Mason Engineering Front Strut Brace
BMW ZHP Front Control Arms
BMW M3 Engine Mounts
BMW M3 Transmission Mounts
Meyle HD 66mm Front Control Arm Bushings
BMW M3 Rear Control Arm Bushings
Turner Motorsports Rear Control Arm Bushing Limiters
BMW M3 Spherical Bearing Rear Lower/Outer Control Arm Bushings
Stoptech Stainless Steel Brake Lines F/R
BMW Motorsport Cross-drilled, Fully Floating Front Brake Rotors
Jurid Front Brake Pads
BMW M3 Rear Brake Pads
Turner Motorsports Brass Brake Caliper Bushings
Borla Catback Stainless Steel Exhaust
Meyle Heavy Duty Rear Differential Mounts
BMW ZHP Finned Rear Differential Cover/Cooler
BMW ZHP Shift Knob
B&M Short Shift Kit
UUC Stainless Steel, Weighted Shift Rod
Mason Engineering Quick Shift Geometry Clutch Pedal Arm
Stewart Engineering Water Pump
Rogue Engineering Underdrive Pulley Set
BMW M3 Trunk Lid Spoiler Lip
BMW Motorsport Alcantara Steering Wheel
Center Arm Rest Delete


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That car must be a blast to drive around in the hills.
 
Could you imagine what the car market would look like if every used car got the love and care of that ZHP E46?? Very impressive!
 
Originally Posted by Pew
Originally Posted by edyvw
His is ZHP, in that condition, if possible to find in that condition, will not go below $25k.



25K was actually the initial number I typed but then deleted it and put down 15K. I just have never seen one that clean.

Originally Posted by edyvw
I actually enjoy driving in Chicago etc. People do not have time for kidding around. far better than here where driver on STOP sign waits jogger that is 200ft away. Jogger waves to driver to go, but no. School pick ups, where everyone wants not to park in front of entrance to school, but if they could somehow enter classroom with their Tahoe or Excursion they would. Chicago is nothing comapred to typical American suburbia.


Man I thought Colorado had the most normal drivers!

LOL, I would say there are a lot of horrible drivers everywhere.
Neighborhood facebook page is the worst:
Day before snow: Neighbors stay home unless it is emergency.
Day of snow: This is really bad people, even my Toyota 4 Runner is sliding (apparently this guy that always posts on FB page thinks his 4Runner is pinnacle of snow performance).
After we got 3 inches: Roads are bad stay home.
3 days after snow someone pops on page: is it safe to go out?

Now, imagine those people on roads.
 
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Originally Posted by Ws6
Originally Posted by edyvw
Originally Posted by Pew
Originally Posted by SLO_Town
I guess I don't fit the typical BMW mold. I special ordered my 2003 E46 330Ci from the factory (no sunroof). I took possession in Feb 2003. Aside from the smog test guy, my handpicked alignment shop, and the airbag recall, another set of hands have not touched it.

Here it is in its glory. Looks brand new, eh? It's got 91k miles on it! So, I've had the car for 17 years - and I work on it. Weird.

Scott

PS Yes, I wash the undercarriage. I hand wash it!


You can sell that here for $15K easily.

His is ZHP, in that condition, if possible to find in that condition, will not go below $25k.



Guess someone should jump on this one for $17K with less miles, 3 years newer, then. Autotrader has more, for cheaper, too, and in great shape (not detailed undercarriages...that's an exclusive, lol!) It's a real ZHP, too.

https://www.autotrader.com/cars-for-sale/vehicledetails.xhtml?listingId=530176676&zip=64856&referrer=%2Fcars-for-sale%2Fsearchresults.xhtml%3Fzip%3D64856%26listingTypes%3DUSED%26sortBy%3Drelevance%26incremental%3Dall%26firstRecord%3D0%26marketExtension%3Doff%26modelCodeList%3D330CI%26makeCodeList%3DBMW%26searchRadius%3D0&listingTypes=USED&numRecords=25&firstRecord=0&modelCodeList=330CI&makeCodeList=BMW&searchRadius=0&makeCode1=BMW&modelCode1=330CI&clickType=listing

Anyone who does not want to spend few hrs installing DSP to head unit, but goes with some aftermarket audio unit to cut corners, says enough about owner.
 
Thanks all for your nice comments. The car runs and drives flawlessly. My oldest son, who is a car guy too, once told me, "Dad, if you put this car in a BMW showroom, a person not familiar with the BMW brand would think it was a new car". The car really is that nice.

I've got the chassis set up nicely. Suspensions are my thing. It's firm but not harsh. Softer sprung than you might expect, but lots of roll stiffness. It still has good suspension travel. Lots of suspension bushing changes using on M or Group N BMW parts, so no squeaks, etc. . BBS CH wheels are ideally sized, including offset. Sticky Cup 2 tires grip well. BMW floating rotors in front. The suspension and brakes are 100% dialed in. The car is tight. Not a single shake, rattle, or buzz in the entire car.

Although I've done some serious wrenching on the car, changing it to suit my own exact preferences, it has not had a single thing go wrong with it in 17 years and 91k miles. It's been a zero defect car so far. I think that's impressive. I think E46s (and E39s) are the last generation of BMWs that were trouble free and relatively easy to fix. Our E90 is much harder to work on, if not a PITA at times.

Scott
 
And I think Nadaguide has it at about 5k so if it got smashed up, that's about what the insurance company would offer on it.
 
Originally Posted by Wolf359
And I think Nadaguide has it at about 5k so if it got smashed up, that's about what the insurance company would offer on it.

I have a fixed amount policy with Hagerty. But, yes, I suspect you might be right.

Scott
 
Originally Posted by SLO_Town

I have a fixed amount policy with Hagerty. But, yes, I suspect you might be right.

Scott


That who I have my Club Sport insured with.
 
Originally Posted by andreigbs
Well, I didn't buy it brand-new but I did buy a 2016 X3 x28d fresh off lease, so.... close enough?



Well, I understand buying one off-lease--I just don't understand buying new given the delta in pricing new vs. used. Turns out the answer to my question was answered in here though: most don't buy them new, they lease them.

I will say that one of the things that makes these pretty attractive in the used market (in addition to the >50% depreciation) is that fact that BMW provides the service at no charge. Almost all of the ones on the used market have well-documented service histories.

The friend of mine who was looking did end up purchasing an X1. 2016, certified, with every available option, 23K miles on it, for $20K. Inside and out the car seems brand new. It had 4 oil changes, a brake fluid flush and front brake pads? in that 23K (probably will change to a different pad at some point...). Still has 2 years of bumper-to-bumper warranty. The original sticker was 46K.

Not sure of the pricing you got on the X3, but I have to say, these look appealing in the used market for folks who are comfortable working on their own cars or have a reasonably-priced indy available to them.
 
Originally Posted by andreigbs
Well, I didn't buy it brand-new but I did buy a 2016 X3 x28d fresh off lease, so.... close enough?



Sweet !
 
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Not sure of the pricing you got on the X3, but I have to say, these look appealing in the used market for folks who are comfortable working on their own cars or have a reasonably-priced indy available to them.

Considering the sticker (yes, I found the sticker in the booklet) price was $48,235 I think got a screaming deal including my trade which I owed a few grand on. They had been trying to sell it for nearly 6 months, alas no brave takers. It has new brakes all around and a fresh oil change. Even without BMW's official CPO, the car has the following warranty coverage still active:

-8yrs/8k miles for catalytic converter, engine ECU, SCR system, and DPF.
-10yrs/120k miles for NOx sensors (extension on the original 8/80 above)

Quote
Sweet !

Thanks!
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It rides like a dream, returning over 35MPGs so far.

I should mention this is my first ever BMW in 25 years of driving. I've had at least 8 VWs, 4 Mercs, a couple domestics along the way. I can see the BMW appeal.
 
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I’ve purchased 3 BMWS new- the last one a E46 330ci that I special ordered with cloth interior/manual/carbon fiber trim. All I had to do was gas/oil/tires in the entire time I owned it. It has been replaced with a 2018 Porsche C4S that has not had one issue (just replaced tires with Michelin Pilot 4S). Be fastidious about maintenance on your European car, and they don’t cost much more for daily transportation, after the initial high buyin. I actually sold my BMW for exactly what I paid for it- so I got pretty good return after 5 years.
 

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obviously the car market has changed quite a bit since I started this thread (so has my user name due to the site migration and an inability to resurrect my old account...).

At the time, a 2 year off-lead X1 with 21K miles on it was selling for about 45% of the original list price; hence my disbelieve that anyone would buy one of these new? Of course, the used market has changed quite a bit, and that same car would now sell for closer to 65% of new. Changes the calculus a bit, but it's still some big depreciation.

My friend ended up buying the X1 and she's really happy with it. It's not my dream car but she really likes it. She's put about 15K miles on it and no problems, though it's obviously still a pretty new car.
 
A friend is looking at small SUV's/CUV's, and has it pretty much narrowed down to an X1, F48 style. In looking at BMW's, I'm beginning to think that no one actually purchases these new. There are tons of lease returns, almost zero for sale private party.

I guess a bigger question would be "why would someone buy one of these new"? With BMW covering the maintenance, the lease returns almost all seem to have good documented service histories, and a 2-3 year old vehicle is roughly half of the list price:

https://www.anaheimmitsubishi.com/used-Anaheim-2017-BMW-X1-sDrive28i-WBXHU7C34H5H33579

https://www.bmwofbeverlyhills.com/new/BMW/2020-BMW-X1-edaa7cc60a0d0c14545b72dff94c7090.htm

Is their business model set up to heavily push leasing on new cars?

The other car under consideration was the CX-30, new. Compared to a low-miles X1, I'm having a hard time seeing the value proposition w/the Mazda. Seem like that are some real deals on these off-lease, and near as I can tell the N20 engine and 8 speed ZF seem pretty reliable.
Yes, poor people buy new BMWs. Rich people buy used ones.
 
^ lol, yeah the mom's basement statement seems like an amount of envy coupled with trying to project negativity onto BMW drivers. Then again, if someone wants to spend a disproportionately large % of their income on their vehicle, how is that anyone else's business? If they can't afford it then the repo man will come and fix things.

If anything, I'd expect someone living in mom's basement, to be driving mom's old car and she's driving the new one. You have to have decent credit and/or fair amount of money down to lease a high value vehicle. I don't see the person living in someone's basement as being the typical customer... more like someone with disposable income and a mental block about maintaining a vehicle long-term and possibly that is the right attitude with something more complex and expensive to repair.

It's an apples and oranges comparison. Compare the used X-1 with a similar condition used CX-30. You should be able to get a 2017 CX-30 from a private party for under $15K, and based on *average* maintenance and repair costs over 10 years, save another $8K. Granted the DIY repairs is the red herring here, some you can do yourself. Some need special tools. Some BMW parts are very expensive even if you DIY.

Essentially, two similar (enough) functionality vehicles for two different income levels, all else equal. Then again, there are a lot of people who can afford a BMW, precisely because they accumulated savings by not being a part of the status symbol race.
I have owned 3 BMW'S my son has his own used dealership specializing in BMW Porsche ROLLS-ROYCE Bentley and the like. I drove many of them, the ones that stick out, my 530 with the smoothest stick shift ever, and a 12 cylinder 850 black on black, ran like a striped ass ape.. My basement was used to build hot rod motors in the winter time
 
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