New Honda Accord Hybrid

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JHZR2

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Originally Posted By: Vikas
How in the world somebody can get away with comparing Prius with Accord and saying Accord beats it? Sorry but if somebody makes invalid comparison, expect to get called out on it.
That is because you are trying to make it out to be a rigorous comparison, when I just provided some driving observations in MY thread specifically about the Honda Accord Hybrid. Other than trying to be an annoyance, why even make a deal of it? Invalid? What, I drove two cars and tried out their respective hybrid modes, and still think that my HAH is better? So what? Sorry, people do this every single day. Would you be making a deal if I said I drove a camry and then a corolla and liked the drive in the Camry better? Earth shattering. LOL. Sorry, operational characteristics of one vendor's hybrid scheme versus another is indeed valid data. While characteristics of ride, road feel, acceleration, etc. may be apples to oranges (which is something that I implied in the discussion) and not a within class comparison (which is something others asked about), it still is an observation that can be documented. Me driving the two cars does not make me Motor Trend or Car and Driver magazine. Since your reading comprehension appears to be off a bit, let me remind you of the main take-aways:
Originally Posted By: JHZR2
There really is a substantial difference in throttle response, engine response and willingness to put power down that the drivability, especially with a few people in it, is substantially better in the accord. And remember, I keep and LOVE 30+ year old Mercedes diesel cars with hp and torque ratings in the double digits. So I know slow cars. But the Prius is a different kind of slow. A 240d is slow but willing, a Prius is slow and not. The HAH couldn't care less and just goes at will. Another thing that bugged me on the Prius was regeneration. The HAH coasts MUCH better, and transitions into a regent mode at a higher level more readily. To the prius's compliment, the transition of states in the Prius drivetrain is far more seamless than in the accord. In the Accord, I'd describe it as the feel of a smooth auto teams shifting gears, just without the engine dynamics associated. It's really just a nearly unnoticeable bump, but you're aware something happened. In the Prius it's absolutely smooth and seamless.
Transition of propulsion and generation states was something I praised the prius on. The controls for enabling coasting and regeneration modes is not something that is intrinsically different in a $25k vs a $35k or a small hatch vs mainstream midsize sedan. Sorry.
 

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Originally Posted By: Hokiefyd
I agree with this. A 2015 Accord Hybrid's curb weight is about 3,600 pounds -- pretty substantial for a sedan. In comparison, a 2015 Prius' curb weight is about 3,000 pounds. Even a Prius V is only 3,300 pounds. The Prius seems to me to be aimed at a different consumer than the Accord Hybrid. Honda's ill-received answer to the Prius was the Insight (2,700 pound curb weight). I've owned a number of types of vehicles in my lifetime, including sedans, minivans, trucks, and now a SUVvansedantruck hybrid thing, and the one attribute that pretty consistently predicts how "solid" or "grown up" a car feels, at least to my butt ride-o-meter, is curb weight. Regardless of chassis/damper tuning, curb weight goes a long way towards attenuating noise and vibration and harshness out of a vehicle. And, too, besides the weight difference...a Honda Accord Hybrid starts at about $30,000 MSRP (compared with the Prius' sub-$25k starting price), so I wager that there's a lot missing in the Prius compared with the Accord (things like acoustical glass, sound deadening materials, various chassis refinements, etc).
Yet many of those things I didnt comment on at all. No place at all in my little report on driving a prius did I say anything about interior appointments, acoustic glass, sound deadening materials, chassis refinements, etc. Im pretty sure I didnt say anything about NVH either. So what are you trying to get at exactly??? You make it out like 500 lbs is some magic determinant. Yet, since I know the driving feel of it, I threw my 3500 lb, 67HP 240D into the mix... That should be the worst of all worlds, right? Heavy but slow, outdated tires and suspension, etc? Yet the 240D's 52 lb/hp is preferable to me in terms of desire to move and get rolling, to the prius's 22lb/hp (and yes the 240 is a diesel, but electric motors make full torque at 0 RPM so that's somewhat moot), and I find the Accord's 17 lb/hp better still, as would be obvious. Again, Im not motor trend or car and driver, I am merely attempting to principally compare and contrast the hybrid schemes - becaue the HAH changes modes quite a bit, and the prius, while more doggy in terms of acceleration, does it more seamlessly. And even if one argues that the prius is pushing max MPGs over other cars, well, mine is still rated 50 city vs the prius's what? 52? This isnt a rigorous comparison. It was discussion on a web forum. People are trying to read far more into this than there is.
 
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I don't know the technical details of various hybrid in different makes/models, I don't know if Prius and Camry have the same hybrid type. Car&Driver tested 4 mid-sized hybrids and Accord came out on top as most fuel efficient + acceleration ... http://www.caranddriver.com/reviews/2016-hyundai-sonata-hybrid-test-review I understand your comparison of Prius and Accord hybrid techniques, but I think Toyota tried their best in obtaining highest MPG for Prius, while Honda and other tried to improve MPG for their mid-sized sedans. So, the valid comparison should be Accord vs Camry vs Sonata vs Fusion. Since you didn't have time to do it and it happened that you had a chance to drive a Prius, your comparison does have some values for drivers who like to purchase a family sedan with better than 35-40 MPG, especially for gridlock area like So Cal regular cars are hardly get over 23-25 MPG.
 
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Originally Posted By: JHZR2
Yet many of those things I didnt comment on at all. No place at all in my little report on driving a prius did I say anything about interior appointments, acoustic glass, sound deadening materials, chassis refinements, etc. Im pretty sure I didnt say anything about NVH either. So what are you trying to get at exactly???
Dude, chill!! You made an observation that your Accord felt and drove a lot better than the Prius. Someone else made the observation that they're really in different classes, and I agreed with it. We, at least in my opinion, are validating your observations, not attacking them!
 

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Originally Posted By: Hokiefyd
Originally Posted By: JHZR2
Yet many of those things I didnt comment on at all. No place at all in my little report on driving a prius did I say anything about interior appointments, acoustic glass, sound deadening materials, chassis refinements, etc. Im pretty sure I didnt say anything about NVH either. So what are you trying to get at exactly???
Dude, chill!! You made an observation that your Accord felt and drove a lot better than the Prius. Someone else made the observation that they're really in different classes, and I agreed with it. We, at least in my opinion, are validating your observations, not attacking them!
Because when I get stuff like:
Originally Posted By: Vikas
How in the world somebody can get away with comparing Prius with Accord and saying Accord beats it? Sorry but if somebody makes invalid comparison, expect to get called out on it.
Sorry, "called out" on it? For what, a completely non rigorous, not detailed discussion of thirty miles of driving? lol. At the same time, all the other stuff that was mentioned was not stuff that would have even registered. The Prius was comfortable, quiet, good seats, fit us well, etc. If there's one thing I'd anticipate to be comparable between the vendors, it's the power train (not necessarily 0-60, but operationally). Honda and Toyota do it different, that's well known. The ratings aren't THAT different. Toyota had some pluses, just the Honda coasted and regens better IMO. That's about all I had to say or compare, and I have my doubts that the "classes" between one low end car and another (I love my accord, but I'm not going to fool myself either) are that vastly different. We can discuss that all day, but to be "called out" on some very cursory comments is just ridiculous, IMO.
 
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Prius=dinky compact that i would be embarrassed to drive. Accord=Massive Space inside, classy looks, a respectable car. I don't think the economy works out comparing to a sport trim, but its not always about the basic numbers. It is a very long time before the Hybrid fuel economy savings overtakes the higher initial cost. But that doesn't really matter once its bought and paid for and you can enjoy getting high MPG all the time. The hybrid should enjoy some ridiculous resale value down the road as well.
 
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Originally Posted By: JHZR2
Sorry, "called out" on it?
You'll note that that's not the statement with which I agreed...AND it was posted after mine... smile I don't think you were intending to question why folks would buy a Prius compared with an Accord, or were trying to cast doubt on the value of either one. I believed you were noting the differences between them and how they felt to your own toosh. My reply, even if it wasn't taken this way, was in agreement that an Accord should feel different and probably more "grown up" than a Prius due to a number of factors. To answer your question to me, that is what I was trying to get at, exactly. smile I agree with you.
 

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Originally Posted By: Hokiefyd
Originally Posted By: JHZR2
Sorry, "called out" on it?
You'll note that that's not the statement with which I agreed...AND it was posted after mine... smile I don't think you were intending to question why folks would buy a Prius compared with an Accord, or were trying to cast doubt on the value of either one. I believed you were noting the differences between them and how they felt to your own toosh. My reply, even if it wasn't taken this way, was in agreement that an Accord should feel different and probably more "grown up" than a Prius due to a number of factors. To answer your question to me, that is what I was trying to get at, exactly. smile I agree with you.
Agreed. cheers
 

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Originally Posted By: dareo
Prius=dinky compact that i would be embarrassed to drive. Accord=Massive Space inside, classy looks, a respectable car. I don't think the economy works out comparing to a sport trim, but its not always about the basic numbers. It is a very long time before the Hybrid fuel economy savings overtakes the higher initial cost. But that doesn't really matter once its bought and paid for and you can enjoy getting high MPG all the time. The hybrid should enjoy some ridiculous resale value down the road as well.
That's your opinion on the prius and the Accord. Id have no issue with a Prius, and my parents have one, as do a lot of other people I know. There are pros and cons regarding each hybrid system, which was my finding, and thats about it. For me, savings is multi-fold... First is gas savings from 50 MPG vs one car that gets 30 and one that gets 34 or so (we had eight cars prior to trading a bunch). Then there is insurance savings, and maintenance savings. Yes, one could argue that we could have just sold n cars and obtained the same savings, fair enough... But had we not gotten what I felt was a really good deal, I also could have just walked and kept driving our other cars. I liked the lines of the accord, liked the operation of certain things, and the driving feel of our odyssey, and that generally translated to the accord... So the combination of a great deal with the fact that I generally liked the car made us pull the trigger. I didnt NEED a car. So I didnt need to shop and compare too much. Had I disliked the accord on a test drive, I would have walked and just kept driving our other cars, no skin off my teeth. Maybe one of the other "in class" cars is better. As it turns out, I dont get that impression from the auto rags. Im gaining savings from fuel and a few other reasons, and Im happy. I wouldnt have bought an MT sport accord or anything else right now. But as of now Im glad I bought the HAH. Time will tell if that stays the case, but given that in NJ the hybrid system is warranted for 15/150k, Im not terribly worried either...
 

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This has been pretty consistent for my use so far. Averaging 40 mph, combination of traffic and high speed highway. This is after 269 miles out and back. I've seen lots of reports that the sound system isn't that great, but I've been happy with mine playing MP3 (direct off USB) and streamed music (over Bluetooth). Quiet, light, certainly isn't built with the substance of the Saab or vw, but drives nice and light while still handling well. Not a couch on wheels but not exhausting on 100+ mile straight shots.
 
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If your computer truly averages 40 mph, then that's quite the highway commute you have there! When I owned a vehicle that displayed average mph, I was shocked to see my average mph at only 26, despite me thinking I had a pretty "highway" style ride to work and back. What you like about your Accord is why Hondas are usually agreeable to me. They're not the most exciting and also not the most dull -- they seem to strike a good balance for me, especially at this price range.
 
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Those are awesome MPG numbers and if you get a 15/150k warranty in NJ on the hybrid stuff its a no brainer. We get 28 mixed and 35 pure highway in the sport 6mt about 23k miles into ownership. The speakers in all the accords are pretty bad, but that is easy to upgrade.
 

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Originally Posted By: dareo
Those are awesome MPG numbers and if you get a 15/150k warranty in NJ on the hybrid stuff its a no brainer. We get 28 mixed and 35 pure highway in the sport 6mt about 23k miles into ownership. The speakers in all the accords are pretty bad, but that is easy to upgrade.
I'm actuay happy with the speakers. Pure highway, 70+ mph, I think the car is more like 43-45ish mpg. But what it does is cycle charge the battery so you go opportunistically in ev mode now and again. I actually kind of wish there was a way to prevent that - use generation and/or direct coupled mode but keep the engine on at all times unless regenerating. It seems like it does the switch routinely, and while I like the fact that it returns good mpgs doing that, I'm not a huge fan of it cycling like that when I feel it needn't. Engine only mode to go with ev only mode in other words. I suspect if I did that we'd return more like 38-40 mpg, but I think it would be a good compromise for mechanical and battery longevity on long highway cruises. Like a friend of mine who has been designing and building ev battery packs for about 30 years said, these cars need an "expert mode". No biggie though given the warranty I guess.
 
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Have you done the mpg calculations yourself to see how they compare to the computer's results? Since on some cars the computer can be a little generous. Also Enkei makes wheels for Honda. So that's an option if you're still looking for winter wheels.
 
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Originally Posted By: satinsilver
Have you done the mpg calculations yourself to see how they compare to the computer's results? Since on some cars the computer can be a little generous. Also Enkei makes wheels for Honda. So that's an option if you're still looking for winter wheels.
I only have bought a partial tank since Ive brought the car home from the dealer (and the tank included all the time at the dealer, test drive, prep, etc). I found that the meter was actually about 0.7 MPG too low. I was surprised because in my experience, car meters seem to be a few percent too high, as you mention. Another interesting find: Consistently one way to work I get 60 MPG and the other I get 50 MPG. The trip is all entirely flat, other than a bridge which is symmetric. The difference is that the one direction (to work, the higher MPG direction), I have to slow nearly to a stop to pay a toll/cruise through the EZ pass... That regeneration is worth more than the maintained inertia of the other direction when it comes to making MPGs with a hybrid!
 

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This car really is interesting to drive. Its enjoyable to drive, the electric steering, though a bit disconnected, is light and responsive, and the handling is good. It feels far lighter than it is, even if its size is a bit large (coming from an E30 BMW as a daily driver, and to caveat, this is certainly not obnoxious given the volume you get inside - and i did purposely want a large car). It certainly also isn't the rolling boat that the camry is. MPGs are also interesting. 50 MPG is easy, though depending upon the drive and use, it can vary widely. Ive seen some trips down in the 30s. Reality is that a 4 cyl car is going to return that if doing a lot of highway use and not a lot of hybrid ops with energy recovery. This car has a higher thermal efficiency than the 2.4L 4 cyl, so HP for HP and speed for speed, even if running purely on the engine, it will burn less gas. Interestingly also Ive not really found much benefit to using the econ button versus having it off. Im trying to figure how to get the engine to run at low base long, longer and more, while still doing hybrid ops... Usually I see more of a split like 45-50 one trip followed by 50-60 the other direction. One of the most varied Ive seen was this: Driven carefully and consistently (which though I drive gently, I can't say that I do), there is no doubt in my mind that 60 MPG all day long is achievable in this car. I know it can be done all day long in a Prius, as my parents are living proof. But Im pretty convinced this one can too. Also going from one to the other, its interesting how much more substantial the odyssey feels, though its suspension tuning is very similar. The steering is worlds different, and while I slightly prefer the heavier feel of the ody, the complete effortlessness of the accord, coupled with its responsiveness to my input makes it a lot of fun.
 
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Originally Posted By: JHZR2
Interestingly also Ive not really found much benefit to using the econ button versus having it off.
Econ hurts city mileage in our 2013 CR-V. Its a consistent penalty of about 2 mpg. On the highway, econ improves mileage by about the same 2 mpg.
 

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I will say, driving the accord and odyssey back to back, the door cards and outboard elbow rests on the accord are much flimsier and cheaper than the odyssey. If I had to make a complaint, that would be it. They are thin, don't support an arm, and are slightly creaky. If I was just going from the Saab to an accord, I'd understand that I'm going down in class and it may not be as well appointed (though the rest of the interior, other than carpet quality is great and solid). But going from one model to the other, same company, makes me a little disappointed in that. The odyssey is just so much more solid and nicer.
 
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