Do people actually purchase new BMW's?

JOD

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A friend is looking at small SUV's/CUV's, and has it pretty much narrowed down to an X1, F48 style. In looking at BMW's, I'm beginning to think that no one actually purchases these new. There are tons of lease returns, almost zero for sale private party. I guess a bigger question would be "why would someone buy one of these new"? With BMW covering the maintenance, the lease returns almost all seem to have good documented service histories, and a 2-3 year old vehicle is roughly half of the list price: https://www.anaheimmitsubishi.com/used-Anaheim-2017-BMW-X1-sDrive28i-WBXHU7C34H5H33579 https://www.bmwofbeverlyhills.com/new/BMW/2020-BMW-X1-edaa7cc60a0d0c14545b72dff94c7090.htm Is their business model set up to heavily push leasing on new cars? The other car under consideration was the CX-30, new. Compared to a low-miles X1, I'm having a hard time seeing the value proposition w/the Mazda. Seem like that are some real deals on these off-lease, and near as I can tell the N20 engine and 8 speed ZF seem pretty reliable.
 
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Yes, probably more than other cars, and I'm guessing even the direct competition. Personally I'd pony up the extra 6K for the basic trim a Mazda.
 
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From Car Intelligence. Most new BMW's are leased and it's the brand that Is most highly leased in the USA. For BMW. Leased 77% Payments 10% Cash 13% So, when you see a new BMW "owner"with his new wheels, there is a very good chance he lives in his mom's basement.
 
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Originally Posted by Snagglefoot
From Car Intelligence. Most new BMW's are leased and it's the brand that Is most highly leased in the USA. For BMW. Leased 77% Payments 10% Cash 13% So, when you see a new BMW "owner"with his new wheels, there is a very good chance he lives in his mom's basement.
That's sky high. For practical purposes it's really a form of discounting. Not unlike the situation years ago where the car manufacturers would dump excess inventory into captive auto rental companies and then sell them as used cars after a few thousand miles at a heavy discount.
 
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JOD

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Originally Posted by jimbrewer
Yes, probably more than other cars, and I'm guessing even the direct competition. Personally I'd pony up the extra 6K for the basic trim a Mazda.
Interesting. What makes you say that?
 

CKN

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Originally Posted by Snagglefoot
From Car Intelligence. Most new BMW's are leased and it's the brand that Is most highly leased in the USA. For BMW. Leased 77% Payments 10% Cash 13% So, when you see a new BMW "owner"with his new wheels, there is a very good chance he lives in his mom's basement.
Having grown in in So. Cal-and going back twice a year BMW was/still is to a degree the vehicle of status. I see many in Beach Cities (a 800 sq foot "beach shack will set you back millions) and Beverly Hills, Brentwood, etc. So-the last part of your statement is nonsensical.
 
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^ lol, yeah the mom's basement statement seems like an amount of envy coupled with trying to project negativity onto BMW drivers. Then again, if someone wants to spend a disproportionately large % of their income on their vehicle, how is that anyone else's business? If they can't afford it then the repo man will come and fix things. If anything, I'd expect someone living in mom's basement, to be driving mom's old car and she's driving the new one. You have to have decent credit and/or fair amount of money down to lease a high value vehicle. I don't see the person living in someone's basement as being the typical customer... more like someone with disposable income and a mental block about maintaining a vehicle long-term and possibly that is the right attitude with something more complex and expensive to repair. It's an apples and oranges comparison. Compare the used X-1 with a similar condition used CX-30. You should be able to get a 2017 CX-30 from a private party for under $15K, and based on *average* maintenance and repair costs over 10 years, save another $8K. Granted the DIY repairs is the red herring here, some you can do yourself. Some need special tools. Some BMW parts are very expensive even if you DIY. Essentially, two similar (enough) functionality vehicles for two different income levels, all else equal. Then again, there are a lot of people who can afford a BMW, precisely because they accumulated savings by not being a part of the status symbol race.
 
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JOD

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Originally Posted by Snagglefoot
From Car Intelligence. Most new BMW's are leased and it's the brand that Is most highly leased in the USA. For BMW. Leased 77% Payments 10% Cash 13% So, when you see a new BMW "owner"with his new wheels, there is a very good chance he lives in his mom's basement.
holy smokes... So, that does make sense based on what I'm seeing in the resale market. I have to say though, I think it makes for some good deals in the off-lease market, particularly since BMW seems to cover the maintenance, and most of the ones I've looked at have well-documented maintenance histories. One thing though: I wouldn't assume that everyone who leases is living in his mom's basement. I know several folks who could easy buy whatever car they want, cash--and they choose to lease. And for some folks, typically those who want a new car every 2 to 3 years and purchase euro brands that depreciate like crazy, it can make sense.
 
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Originally Posted by Dave9
It's an apples and oranges comparison. Compare the used X-1 with a similar condition used CX-30. You should be able to get a 2017 CX-30 from a private party for under $15K.
The CX-30 is a new model for 2020.
 
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Originally Posted by Dave9
If anything, I'd expect someone living in mom's basement, to be driving mom's old car and she's driving the new one. You have to have decent credit and/or fair amount of money down to lease a high value vehicle. I don't see the person living in someone's basement as being the typical customer... more like someone with disposable income and a mental block about maintaining a vehicle long-term and possibly that is the right attitude with something more complex and expensive to repair.
Millennials. Live at home for free or cheap and drive a new BMW or pay astronomical rents to foreign landlords if you live in a large Canadian city. You would have to be a fool or a euro mechanic to own a BMW or MB out of warranty. My uncle leased a newer (2012?) A6 and bought it after lease. It needed a new trans within a year or two but that was covered by warranty.
 
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Originally Posted by Danno
Originally Posted by Dave9
It's an apples and oranges comparison. Compare the used X-1 with a similar condition used CX-30. You should be able to get a 2017 CX-30 from a private party for under $15K.
The CX-30 is a new model for 2020.
Yes that is what makes it apples and oranges, that there is no reason why it has to be one or the other, a used beemer vs new mazda. Plus if you're maxing out your budget to get the most expensive that fits in that budget then you should factor for the higher beemer repair costs. There is no rule against having more money put into savings, drawing interest, for a rainy day or job layoff or illness, move out of mom's basement wink etc.
 
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JOD

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Originally Posted by Dave9
^ lol, yeah the mom's basement statement seems like an amount of envy coupled with trying to project negativity onto BMW drivers. If anything, I'd expect someone living in mom's basement, to be driving mom's old car and she's driving the new one. You have to have decent credit and/or fair amount of money down to lease a high value vehicle. I don't see the person living in someone's basement as being the typical customer... more like someone with disposable income and a mental block about maintaining a vehicle long-term and possibly that is the right attitude with something more complex and expensive to repair. It's an apples and oranges comparison. Compare the used X-1 with a similar condition used CX-30. You should be able to get a 2017 CX-30 from a private party for under $15K, and based on *average* maintenance and repair costs over 10 years, save another $8K. Granted the DIY repairs is the red herring here, some you can do yourself. Some need special tools. Some BMW parts are very expensive even if you DIY. Essentially, two similar (enough) functionality vehicles for two different income levels, all else equal. Then again, there are a lot of people who can afford a BMW, precisely because they accumulated savings by not being a part of the status symbol race.
The CX-30 is brand new for 2020, so there are no used ones out there. A more apples-to-apples comparison would be a >2017-8 CX-5 (the refreshed version) compared to a 2016 or 17 X1. This one is pretty typical: https://www.russellwestbrookhyundai...eim-92eca0590a0e0a6b181bfe61297a250d.htm In short, a similar used CX-5 is roughly the same price as a similarly-equipped X1, and the X1 seems to be a nicer car. In terms of reliability, they do not seem to really be that different. Maintenance cost will by DIY, so that's a non-issue. Parts do not seem to be crazy expensive on this vehicle (already priced out consumables like pads/rotors, etc).
 
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Originally Posted by JOD
[quote=jimbrewer]Yes, probably more than other cars, and I'm guessing even the direct competition. Personally I'd pony up the extra 6K for the basic trim a Mazda.
Interesting. What makes you day that? Basically, 36k miles on a brand new cuv is worth 6K to me. I won't even take into consideration the issue of better long term reliability and lower maintenance costs or the advantage of maintaining a car to absurd BITOG standards from new.
 
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Originally Posted by JOD
The CX-30 is brand new for 2020, so there are no used ones out there... Maintenance cost will by DIY, so that's a non-issue. Parts do not seem to be crazy expensive on this vehicle (already priced out consumables like pads/rotors, etc).
Fair enough, I didn't factor for CX-30 being a new model, don't know what I was looking at earlier but swear I saw 2017 for $15K at dealers. Okay, stupid google, I searched for CX-30 and it gave me data for CX-3. Even so, history suggests that BMW parts will be much more expensive. It's not the consumables that'll get you, obviously anyone can make a brake rotor hunk of metal in the right dimensions, or tires, wiper blades, etc. Since the CX-30 is a new model, only time will tell what problems crop up but if maintenance and repair costs average double for the beemer, that's going to translate into more hassle and/or expense for the DIY'er too. I don't make up these statistics and often think they are unrealistically high, but there may also be the issue of peer support. Will there be as many enthusiasts able to assist with BMW repairs? I tend to think not, that there will be more peer support for a mazda.
 
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JOD

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Originally Posted by maxdustington
Originally Posted by Dave9
If anything, I'd expect someone living in mom's basement, to be driving mom's old car and she's driving the new one. You have to have decent credit and/or fair amount of money down to lease a high value vehicle. I don't see the person living in someone's basement as being the typical customer... more like someone with disposable income and a mental block about maintaining a vehicle long-term and possibly that is the right attitude with something more complex and expensive to repair.
Millennials. Live at home for free or cheap and drive a new BMW or pay astronomical rents to foreign landlords if you live in a large Canadian city. You would have to be a fool or a euro mechanic to own a BMW or MB out of warranty. My uncle leased a newer (2012?) A6 and bought it after lease. It needed a new trans within a year or two but that was covered by warranty.
not trying to be argumentative here--genuinely curious: where are the reports of the X1 being unreliable? I haven't seen them, anywhere. The N20 has been around for quite a while, as has the ZP 8 speed box, both seem as reliable as any other drivetrains out there. I don't see tons of reports on electrical issues. It seems to eat brake pads. Besides that, there are very few negative reports on it. What am I missing here?
 
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^ You are missing that even vehicles that are supposedly reliable, still can have higher maintenance and repair costs. Is an X1 an unprecedented increase in reliability for BMW? If not, then it is reasonable to look at existing BMW repair data. If so, it will take more years to accumulate this data. The F48 is only going on 5 years old now right? So the more reliable years are passing and then next 5 will paint a better picture. If you want to insist it will be equal to maintain and repair, that is your gamble to make. Historically it has been untrue, BMW's tend to cost over twice as much. This may not matter, a more luxurious vehicle should be worth more money to its owner, but again it's new vs used and seemingly maxing out a budget. It is not an apples and oranges comparison to me, only based on an assumption about cost that does not seem valid. BMWs are notorious for high repair costs, like, as expensive as it gets before you drift into exotic sports cars.
 
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Originally Posted by Vern_in_IL
The sell on a BMW was using high tech materials and methods, not reliability.
And the driving/riding experience.
 
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It's been stated already, but yes, leases are a huge part of their business models. This is pretty standard for the higher end market due to couple of consistent variables.
  • Consumers of these products rarely have the desire to hold onto their vehicle for longer than 2-3 years, let alone a long time.
  • Consumers often view a lower monthly cost as the cheaper option.
  • Many individuals will put this expense under their company expenses, leasing has considerable advantages over purchasing in this instance.
  • Manufacturers and Dealers push leasing as it's more profitable for them, the audience more receptive to this is the higher end market.
 
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