DIFFERENT OILS AND NO FILTER ON ENGINE

Status
Not open for further replies.
Originally Posted By: jmsjags
so is this still the train of thought...that what oil you use is more important than what filter? do you think using a "top tier" oil like M1 EP or PU would have any benefit over using an oil like QSUD for a 7500 OCI?


Yes, good oil is more important than the filter.

Bump for Newbees who think they need a high end filter
 
Last edited:
With today's engines and today's oils I often wonder if filters are like the human appendix, a useless appendage that we have to deal with. Filters cannot catch the really small stuff and are more of catastrophic failure cans than useful engine components. So, a filter with the highest flow rate is the one I vote for, flow over filtration as IMO they really filter out very little if any harmful contaminants. An empty can would probably have the same engine longevity as a filter changed every OCI.
 
Spector, of course you are correct, but good luck convincing anyone else....Right now the BITOG masses are looking to buy the filter with the lowest micron filter rating and the highest cost...
 
Question - Can anyone recommend a high flow rate filter? Is there a test house that would provide data on filters?

BTW Wave to Spector. I live just the other side of the line.
 
"Ecore's advanced core design has up to 10 times more flow through area than traditional metal cores, resulting in reduced flow restriction across the filter element." Ecore

With all this flow talk, I guess GM, ACDelco, and Champ Labs are doing it right.
 
Originally Posted By: Bluestream
This data is a bit old now, but ,may help you..

http://www.bobistheoilguy.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=315003&page=1


I read both of those old threads and really appreciate what the original "Bob" and the rest of you guys were trying to discover. That was a lot of work and dedication on his part. I read in one of the other posts that he still pops in from time to time. Is that still the case?
 
Originally Posted By: Spector
With today's engines and today's oils I often wonder if filters are like the human appendix, a useless appendage that we have to deal with. Filters cannot catch the really small stuff and are more of catastrophic failure cans than useful engine components. So, a filter with the highest flow rate is the one I vote for, flow over filtration as IMO they really filter out very little if any harmful contaminants. An empty can would probably have the same engine longevity as a filter changed every OCI.


This is an eye opening thread for sure!
 
Originally Posted By: DeepFriar
Originally Posted By: Bluestream
This data is a bit old now, but ,may help you..

http://www.bobistheoilguy.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=315003&page=1


I read both of those old threads and really appreciate what the original "Bob" and the rest of you guys were trying to discover. That was a lot of work and dedication on his part. I read in one of the other posts that he still pops in from time to time. Is that still the case?



No, sadly Bob passed away many years ago
 
Originally Posted By: Spector
With today's engines and today's oils I often wonder if filters are like the human appendix, a useless appendage that we have to deal with. Filters cannot catch the really small stuff and are more of catastrophic failure cans than useful engine components. So, a filter with the highest flow rate is the one I vote for, flow over filtration as IMO they really filter out very little if any harmful contaminants. An empty can would probably have the same engine longevity as a filter changed every OCI.
If the mfgs could get away with out filters they would be gone.
 
They can get away, but given the little cost to add them, and the neg public perception why bother...Plus they do provide some insurance...
 
Originally Posted By: Bluestream
Spector, of course you are correct, but good luck convincing anyone else....Right now the BITOG masses are looking to buy the filter with the lowest micron filter rating and the highest cost...


Or endlessly speculate about the differences between a 99.1 and 99.67% efficient filter.
 
Originally Posted By: Patman
It's interesting to go back and read this thread from so long ago! It's also sad to see how many of the people who posted in this topic that used to be hard core regulars, now don't post here anymore
frown.gif

They have all been banned for not doing group think .
 
Originally Posted By: Bluestream
Originally Posted By: DeepFriar
Originally Posted By: Bluestream
This data is a bit old now, but ,may help you..

http://www.bobistheoilguy.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=315003&page=1


I read both of those old threads and really appreciate what the original "Bob" and the rest of you guys were trying to discover. That was a lot of work and dedication on his part. I read in one of the other posts that he still pops in from time to time. Is that still the case?



No, sadly Bob passed away many years ago


I thought that was Mr. Riek, who Bob sold the site to, and not Bob.
 
Originally Posted By: kschachn
Originally Posted By: Bluestream
Spector, of course you are correct, but good luck convincing anyone else....Right now the BITOG masses are looking to buy the filter with the lowest micron filter rating and the highest cost...


Or endlessly speculate about the differences between a 99.1 and 99.67% efficient filter.



Shirley you jest!
 
Originally Posted By: camrydriver111
Originally Posted By: Bluestream
Originally Posted By: DeepFriar
Originally Posted By: Bluestream
This data is a bit old now, but ,may help you..

http://www.bobistheoilguy.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=315003&page=1


I read both of those old threads and really appreciate what the original "Bob" and the rest of you guys were trying to discover. That was a lot of work and dedication on his part. I read in one of the other posts that he still pops in from time to time. Is that still the case?



No, sadly Bob passed away many years ago


I thought that was Mr. Riek, who Bob sold the site to, and not Bob.


You may be right....I was under the impression Bob had passed from reading old posts...It could be that reports of his demise have been greatly exaggerated..
 
Originally Posted By: BOBISTHEOILGUY
If you have two filters, phyiscal size simular if not exact to meet the car specs, both have same bypass pressure ratings, only real difference is the media. One has less, the other more, which is going to allow flow easier? of course the lower media. Now, here's one thing I think is interesting.. These filters have bypass somewhere between 8-12lbs of pressure or there abouts. What is the pressure of an oil system? anywhere between 20-60lbs. So, one the oil pressure rises in an engine, the filter would be a restritor if it wasn't for the bypass, so, IMO, the filter hits the bypass pressure point and is in bypass from there on and that the only oil being filtered is what ever can pass through the media. Well, if the media is higher or has more restriction, then oil, like many things is going to take the least path of resistance. Point is, m1 filters is so effeicient that it take pressure to pass through the media, the fram doesn't as it will allow better flow because it doesnt' resist as much and that would mean more oil would go through the media vers the oil in a m1 filter.

So, in a nutshell, more flow through a low filter media or no or little flow through a high filter media, which would be better?


With a positive displacement oil pump, the flow at start-up going through the filter will be the same even if one filter is a bit more restrictive than another. Only exception to this fact is if the oil was so thick that it would cause the oil pump pressure relieve valve to regulate the max output pressure of the pump. That just doesn't occur unless you're cold starting at -20 deg F with 20W-50.

Also, the oil pressure of the system has nothing to do with if or when the filter's bypass valve will open up, as the delta-p across the filter is a function of oil viscosity and flow rate.

Yes, I know this thread is from 2002.
smile.gif
 
Originally Posted By: ZeeOSix
Originally Posted By: BOBISTHEOILGUY
If you have two filters, phyiscal size simular if not exact to meet the car specs, both have same bypass pressure ratings, only real difference is the media. One has less, the other more, which is going to allow flow easier? of course the lower media. Now, here's one thing I think is interesting.. These filters have bypass somewhere between 8-12lbs of pressure or there abouts. What is the pressure of an oil system? anywhere between 20-60lbs. So, one the oil pressure rises in an engine, the filter would be a restritor if it wasn't for the bypass, so, IMO, the filter hits the bypass pressure point and is in bypass from there on and that the only oil being filtered is what ever can pass through the media. Well, if the media is higher or has more restriction, then oil, like many things is going to take the least path of resistance. Point is, m1 filters is so effeicient that it take pressure to pass through the media, the fram doesn't as it will allow better flow because it doesnt' resist as much and that would mean more oil would go through the media vers the oil in a m1 filter.

So, in a nutshell, more flow through a low filter media or no or little flow through a high filter media, which would be better?


With a positive displacement oil pump, the flow at start-up going through the filter will be the same even if one filter is a bit more restrictive than another. Only exception to this fact is if the oil was so thick that it would cause the oil pump pressure relieve valve to regulate the max output pressure of the pump. That just doesn't occur unless you're cold starting at -20 deg F with 20W-50.

Also, the oil pressure of the system has nothing to do with if or when the filter's bypass valve will open up, as the delta-p across the filter is a function of oil viscosity and flow rate.

Yes, I know this thread is from 2002.
smile.gif



My mind is blown a second time.
 
Bypasses open every day, especially in the winter, with all oil grades.

They also open under heavy acceleration.

99.9999% ultra filtering efficiency is not required in any automotive engine but is, instead, marketing oneupsmanship for aftermarket filter manufacturers.
 
Originally Posted By: SilverC6
Bypasses open every day, especially in the winter, with all oil grades.

They also open under heavy acceleration.

99.9999% ultra filtering efficiency is not required in any automotive engine but is, instead, marketing oneupsmanship for aftermarket filter manufacturers.



Do you have data to support this?
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Back
Top