Difference between Fram oil filters?

[Sayjac]

Quote:
....Funny, that you're characterizing me as one of Fram's 'sheeple' when I pretty clearly stated I haven't used one for over 20 years....
Had you bothered to actually read the name in Re: response box you would have seen that your screen name was NOT in the box. And unlike you, unnecessarily quoting my whole post, nowhere in the previous post were 'you' quoted at all, nor was your post directly above in the previous few posts. Thus the response was not specifically directed at you. Just some cogent points to keep in mind for future responses. Though based on your latest post you do seem very defensive to all things Fram.

Once again, the Fram made Honda filter is not an extended OCI filter as defined the filter manufacturer, only Honda. And by Honda's definition ANY filter including the orange can, can be used twice. Can't have the logic work only one way. Also if you read, the reference is specifically to canister filters, cartridge filters were never included.

M1 (no screen), Amsoil and Fram XG to name several (10k filter) label themselves extended OCI. They all have in common, metal endcaps. There are others that based on holding capacity and construction most here would feel comfortable using extended OCI's, the Bosch Distance Plus (no mesh either) to name one. Btw, the BD+ can now be had for ~$3.50 with rebate and AAP code, less than an orange can or TG. Still fairly certain most here would not entertain the Fram Honda as an extended OCI filter in their other than Honda vehicle. Few if any would even run the Fram Honda filter twice, even in a Honda.

Lastly, I find your comment more curious regarding the new Napa Platinum filter and using term bandwagon and me in the same sentence. If you also thoroughly read that thread nowhere did I post in that thread. So no bandwagon of Napa Plat here, though it does look well made. And my first response to the OP regarding using the TG for his OCI was not negative. But, that seems to have been ignored, I suppose because unlike some, I don't defend all things Fram.

 

[ltslimjim]

The filtration media FILTERS oil. End-caps keep the STRUCTURE of the filter media true.

There is nothing hypocritical, as some have 'implied' about understanding the purpose or function of each part of an oil filter, and I personally believe Fram's use on metal end caps on their Extended Guard(their 'best' filter) speaks for itself.

Whether or not metal end caps are considered higher quality generally or not isn't a complete bash on fiber end caps. The e-cores that do that FLAWLESSLY(for the purpose of the conversation) get it right. People wouldn't have as much 'negative' of an opinion of a Fram Extra Guard, for instance, if there was MORE quality assurance(consistent form, and no peace of mind issue etc). Does that mean Frams fail often? Not at all nor is that the point. The point is for the price of buying their own 'preferred' oil filter, 'most' people seem to think metal end caps are more reliable.

It's just like people who prefer synthetic oils, IN GENERAL, over conventional.

Why is that hard to accept?

 

[hardcore302]

Sorry I was late to replying. Crazy hours at work. Tbank you for all the replies!

With all that has been said, I will change the oil that is now in my car at 4k oci (supertech conv with TG.) soon.

Im putting in Pennzoil Conventional and another TG in. How long should the OCI be?

Thanks!

 

[mva]

Originally Posted By: hardcore302
Extra, Tough, Extended, and High Mileage

What's the difference between them?



Here is a comparison:

Fram Extra Guard PH5

ADBV material: Nitrile
Filter area: 183 sq/in

Fram Extra Guard 95% Multipass Efficiency at >20 microns


Fram Tough Guard TG5

ADBV material: Silicon
Filter area: 274 sq/in

Fram Toughguard 99% Multipass Efficiency at >20 microns

Toughguard has more filter media and higher efficiency plus a silicon anti drain back valve.

Fram Xtended Guard TG5

ADBV material: Silicon
Filter area: ?

Fram Xtended Guard 97% Multipass Efficiency at >20 microns

Xtended guard is a much heavier duty construction designed for long oil change intervals.

 

[rcy]

Originally Posted By: hardcore302
Extra, Tough, Extended, and High Mileage

What's the difference between them?

I have a Tough Guard on my Saturn Vue 3.6 with Supertech conventional and the consensus here was to vhange after 4K.

I'm halfway through.. just wondering the difference.

BTW, I have another Tough Guard and SN Pennzoil conventional lined up for the next OCI..

I'll see if I can cut it open for you.


http://fram.com/products/oil_filters/product_list

It's seems to be pretty well laid out at the Fram website. Still, it warms the cockles of my heart to see everyone arguing about Fram YET AGAIN.

 

[Silver02ex]

All this talk about how bad about fiber end caps are ( I don't mean just in this thread) Has anyone has any proof that they can fail or pictures of one that failed? This is one things that annoy me is "It doesn't have mental end caps" Is there an advantage of metal end caps if used for 3K - 5K miles?

 

[cp3]

Originally Posted By: Silver02ex
All this talk about how bad about fiber end caps are ( I don't mean just in this thread) Has anyone has any proof that they can fail or pictures of one that failed? This is one things that annoy me is "It doesn't have mental end caps" Is there an advantage of metal end caps if used for 3K - 5K miles?


I still think a lot of the hate here for Fram goes back to the price and the fact that they are different. Let's face it, Honda knows a thing or two about engines and they are ok with them.

The biggest advantage of the metal has to be the strength for the structure. I honestly cannot remember seeing a metal capped element that looks as rough after use as a basic fiber capped one. Which in the case of the $3.97 MPH3387A I posted I guess isn't bad. At $6 for a PH3387A when a Baldwin is $5.60, I don't see the point. I'd use one but I wouldn't stretch it, as you said much past 3K. A TG maybe, they seem to stand up a little better if I recall correctly.

Personally, I was impressed with the glue job when I cut that filter apart. I'd be more comfortable using one now that I've seen the guts first hand. But I like a coil spring better than a leaf design and sealed elements (all one piece) like Baldwin, Champ & Purolator, which even the mighty Wix doesn't meet.

 

[Silver02ex]

Originally Posted By: cp3
I still think a lot of the hate here for Fram goes back to the price and the fact that they are different. Let's face it, Honda knows a thing or two about engines and they are ok with them.

The biggest advantage of the metal has to be the strength for the structure. I honestly cannot remember seeing a metal capped element that looks as rough after use as a basic fiber capped one. Which in the case of the $3.97 MPH3387A I posted I guess isn't bad. At $6 for a PH3387A when a Baldwin is $5.60, I don't see the point. I'd use one but I wouldn't stretch it, as you said much past 3K. A TG maybe, they seem to stand up a little better if I recall correctly.

Personally, I was impressed with the glue job when I cut that filter apart. I'd be more comfortable using one now that I've seen the guts first hand. But I like a coil spring better than a leaf design and sealed elements (all one piece) like Baldwin, Champ & Purolator, which even the mighty Wix doesn't meet.


If it's the cost issue or you are running an extended drain then, I can understand, but to say a filter is not good becuase "It has fiber end caps" such as a Fram Extra Guard, and you are using it for 3K-5K then. I don't see a point why mental end caps would have an advantage. I can get a PureOne for $2.50 after rebate, so there's no point of buying an Extra Guard for $4-$5. Now if the Fram was $2.50 and the PureOne is $5, I would reconsider for 3K-5K OIC.

 

[rcy]

Originally Posted By: Silver02ex
All this talk about how bad about fiber end caps are ( I don't mean just in this thread) Has anyone has any proof that they can fail or pictures of one that failed? This is one things that annoy me is "It doesn't have mental end caps" Is there an advantage of metal end caps if used for 3K - 5K miles?


When it comes to discussions about Fram, I think a lot of people have "mental end caps"...lol

(I know it was typo - not making fun of you)

 

[cp3]

Originally Posted By: rcy
Originally Posted By: Silver02ex
All this talk about how bad about fiber end caps are ( I don't mean just in this thread) Has anyone has any proof that they can fail or pictures of one that failed? This is one things that annoy me is "It doesn't have mental end caps" Is there an advantage of metal end caps if used for 3K - 5K miles?


When it comes to discussions about Fram, I think a lot of people have "mental end caps"...lol

(I know it was typo - not making fun of you)

I think you are both correct. Hit the nail right on the head.

 

[kasedian]

One has toilet paper inside for filtering media, one has paper towels waded up, and the expensive one has burlap stuffed in it with panty hose around it.

 

[tomcat27]

Originally Posted By: kasedian
One has toilet paper inside for filtering media, one has paper towels waded up, and the expensive one has burlap stuffed in it with panty hose around it.


lolol !!!

hey - you're telling trade secrets!

 

[JOD]

Originally Posted By: sayjac
[ Though based on your latest post you do seem very defensive to all things Fram.



I'm not defensive of all thing Fram. What annoys me though, is that generally people view this site as a source of good information, and the very mention of the word "Fram" seems to bring out the bottom feeders, so I figure someone has to inject some reality into the situation. I'd urge you to take a look at some of the posts above mine. That's the main reason I bother commenting at all.

One thing I am "defensive" of, though, are fiber end caps--since unlike most people on this site, I've actually done extended OCI's, most of which were with filters with fiber end caps. Yes, they were cartridge filters, but the basic point is that end cap construction isn't a limiting factor in a filter's service life, and no one has ever demonstrated or even postulated a reason as to which it is detrimental to the service life of the filter. I regularly range filters with fiber end caps for 20K, and they were fine.

My basic points are that fiber end caps aren't necessarily bad, and some Fram filters are actually pretty good.

 

[Sayjac]

Quote:
I'm not defensive of all thing Fram.....
Considering the fact that you previously quoted my entire post and then proceeded to write a missive of false accusations saying it was directed at you, the use of term defensive seems very appropriate. And if not to all things Fram, then many.

Also noticed that this time only the convenient words are quoted from my post while the other relevant points are ignored, including the false accusations and how to recognize such. I urge you to reread it to avoid that error in the future. An if posting on this topic is a "bother" for you, no need to bother again.

And perhaps the "bottom feeders" here as you label them have a better grip on the reality of Fram filters such as the orange can, than you. Because you have regularly run fiber end caps to 20k still doesn't make them an extended OCI filter. Nor does it mean that others here that wouldn't consider doing similar, are wrong. Since even Fram doesn't recommend running their fiber endcap filters that long, a reality check may be in order.

If you want to pay more for less with Fram fiber endcaps, marketing and advertising, and run them past a reasonable OCI to show you can, no one will stop you. But, with other better constructed filters available for the same or less money, I'll stick with the latter and use with confidence.

Fram does make a good filter though, the Xtended Guard. Unlike the rest of the line, solid construction.

 

[VRAY]

What would be a good price to you for the orange can? I can go to my local Walmart and they are 3.00 now.The only filter cheaper there is the ST.I am not talking about rebates,AAP codes,bundling 10 of these and 20 of that to get $20.00 off ,and then saying xxx filter is only1.00 after all this dancing so therefore it is cheaper.
Fram is a cheap filter that does what it is made to do.There are better filters out there and some worse but you people go overboard on this. I have seen more actual failures reported here with other brands but they get a free pass.Why ??
I very seldom use Fram unless it is part of a deal but I would from time to time. I have never had a problem with them.In the real world they work fine.

 

[Donald]

The Supertech at Walmart is better and cheaper than the plain orange Fram.

 

[Sayjac]

Quote:
What would be a good price to you for the orange can? I can go to my local Walmart and they are 3.00 now.
You must be at a lower priced Fram Wally than the several I visit in my area. Average price of an orange can is ~$3.77, a few apps may be somewhat lower but that is the average price. Have to check to common #7317 application because that is known to be higher.

Since you asked what 'I' would consider a good price for the orange can, based on it's construction as compared to other comparable OCI filters, I'd say $1.75-$2.00 everyday price.

But, at the everyday orange can price I can do better at Kmart with what I consider to be a better constructed filter for the same or less money. The current rebates/codes price are just icing on the cake so to speak. And apparently many here have been more than happy to dance with those deals on better quality filters.

 

[VRAY]

They were 3.77 but now are 3.00. I dont know if that price will stick or not.One of those Rollback prices deals.All of the K-Marts closed by me so that is no option.Anyway,at 3.00 this is the cheapest non e-core filter.If the price is a problem then buy something else.Filters are a mass produced item that are made for pennies so the profit is what I guess your issue is. As far as quality goes they do the job.

 

[chainblu]

Originally Posted By: Donald
The Supertech at Walmart is better and cheaper than the plain orange Fram.


That would depend on how you feel about e-core filters. A lot of the Super Tech filters are now e-core design. However, I have noticed that Super Tech filters for Asian cars (7317,6607,3593,9688... etc) still have metal cores. I'm not sure why...

 

[afoulk]

I heard the horror stories of guys using fram extra guard filters on their 5.9 Cummins engines and having the filter media come apart and clog up turbo oil lines and piston cooling jets. I've been anti-Fram ever since, but the more time i spend on this sight, the more I'm not so sure. We are a Fram dealer where i work, and a few of our shop vehicles have between 200k-300k miles on them, all with a steady diet of conventional oil and Orange Cans of Death, all without any lubrication related problems. I also have a buddy that does a lot of side work at home on cars, always uses fram filters, and has never had an issue as well.