diesel ranks almost as clean as hybrids

[blackman777]

The greenercars environmentalist website ranks all cars cleanliness (from factory to disposal). They list the Prius ICE-based car every bit as efficient/clean as an EV.

They also rank the new diesels (designed to run on sulfur-free fuel) as being only a few percent less clean than the Prius & other hybrids:

55 Prius, Civic hybrid
51 Fusion hybrid
47 Jetta TDI, Audi A3, Gulf TDI
46 Beetle TDI, Passat TDI

Out of 100 max score. The cleanest cars ever made (according to greenercars) were the ICE-based Civic CNG, and the 70 mpg Insight hybrid (both ranked 4% cleaner than the Prius or an EV)

 

[Nickdfresh]

Diesel tech is quite clean now, I can't even tell I'm driving one half the time. Standing behind one you smell nothing and there is no smoke...

 

[Zaedock]

I've always said diesel is the future. No environmentally damaging nickel mined batteries or petroleum wars. Rudolf ran his engine on peanut oil!

 

[Fleetmon]

Yep for diesels. Hybrids, at least in the heavy-duty market, have fallen off of the preferred technology wagon. Battery life, DPIM failures, and minimal (if any) return on investment have been the nails in the coffin of hybrids.

Diesel is cleaner than ever and CNG, due to the low cost of fuel and greatly increased reliability, is rapidly gaining favor.

 

[whip]

What cars are designed to run on sulfur free fuel, and in what country is the fuel available?

 

[Fleetmon]

If the government would keep their paws out of the biodiesel market the fuel would be much cheaper. But, then again, so would everything else....fuel, milk, medicine, food, housing, etc, etc, etc, etc!

Hmmm....maybe the government IS the problem. Lol!!!

 

[whip]

Originally Posted By: Fleetmon
If the government would keep their paws out of the biodiesel market the fuel would be much cheaper. But, then again, so would everything else....fuel, milk, medicine, food, housing, etc, etc, etc, etc!

Pharmaceutical companies spend billions of dollars on marketing drugs, but it's the governments fault that medicine cost so much?

 

[R80RS]

Originally Posted By: Fleetmon
If the government would keep their paws out of the biodiesel market the fuel would be much cheaper. But, then again, so would everything else....fuel, milk, medicine, food, housing, etc, etc, etc, etc!

Hmmm....maybe the government IS the problem. Lol!!!


+1

 

[The Critic]

So, my Prius can get 45 combined and runs on $3.29/gal 87 octane. Sure, I may need a hybrid battery for $3k around the 200k mark and the car feels like a POS...

Compare that to the TDI, which will average high 30s combined and needs $4/gal diesel. It also needs a $400 DSG service every 40k, a $1k timing belt
Job at 120k and fuel filters every 20k.

If you're after pure savings, there's no comparison.

 

[Rand]

it also depends on the driving a tdi will gear near 50 highway whereas a hybrid is much more efficient than a diesel in city

 

[LargeCarManX2]

Wonder if the study looks at the disposal of the batteries as well as the manufacture issues of clean or what it takes to produce or dispose of them?

 

[The Critic]

Originally Posted By: Rand
it also depends on the driving a tdi will gear near 50 highway whereas a hybrid is much more efficient than a diesel in city


Now you're using thr classic assumption that if one drives a lot of miles, they must be all highway?

Very few people live and work a block from the highway.

I love about six miles from the highway and after making it through the mess of traffic lights, my average mpg will drop 10-12% between the time I get off the fwy to when I arrive at home.

Like I said, the EPA combined rating is far more realistic than the highway figure.

 

[Boomer]

Mining lithium for batteries is an environmentally filthy process, producing large amounts of tailings and waste not to mention the energy required to dig it out. One needs to look at embodied energy calculations to arrive at "cleanliness" figures. There are tables of these energy numbers available and they can be added up to get a reasonably accurate idea of what every string of operations reuqires in the way of energy to produce anything.

 

[simple_gifts]

Funny people echo gov't is a problem in a thread about how clean diesel technology is.

I wonder who mandated it be clean.

 

[Barkleymut]

Originally Posted By: whip
Originally Posted By: Fleetmon
If the government would keep their paws out of the biodiesel market the fuel would be much cheaper. But, then again, so would everything else....fuel, milk, medicine, food, housing, etc, etc, etc, etc!

Pharmaceutical companies spend billions of dollars on marketing drugs, but it's the governments fault that medicine cost so much?


If you have ever witnessed an FDA facility inspection (yes I have) then you may understand the increased costs of drug companies operations. The FDA does have its place, but the lack of competence of the average FDA employee negates any value. Instead drug makers are so concerned about stupid stuff that they cannot focus on their core business. So yes it very much effects the price of drugs that you and I buy.

 

[Barkleymut]

And do not get me started on the ATF, a close friend of mine is the COO of a huge gun store here and she says the ATF is clueless on what they are doing. She said it has been downhill for a while, and during their last audit the ATF agents were less knowledgeable about firearm laws than most of her customers.

 

[exranger06]

Originally Posted By: LargeCarManX2
Wonder if the study looks at the disposal of the batteries as well as the manufacture issues of clean or what it takes to produce or dispose of them?

Yes, the OP said the study takes into account all energy from factory to junkyard. And what do you know, the hybrids STILL beat the diesels. So much for the "batteries are going to destroy the world" theories.

 

[Fleetmon]

The ROI just isn't there for the large fleet users of hybrids....there's a reason fleet buyers are turning away from them. NYC is converting around 1500 hybrids back to diesel-only because the fuel savings doesn't justify the additional maintenance costs.

CNG is slowly taking over for hybrids. Once thought to be dying out, natural gas is making a comeback in heavy-duty vehicles. One of my fleets is paying $3.50 per gallon for diesel and averaging 3.7 MPG and the CNG fleet is paying $1.90 per gallon (gallon equivalent) and averaging 3.1 MPG....do the math.

The largest expense with CNG is the "improvements" that must be made to an existing structure to make it CNG-compliant but most improements are capital expenses anyway and qualify for numerous grants and government funding.

 

[R80RS]

Originally Posted By: Barkleymut
Originally Posted By: whip
Originally Posted By: Fleetmon
If the government would keep their paws out of the biodiesel market the fuel would be much cheaper. But, then again, so would everything else....fuel, milk, medicine, food, housing, etc, etc, etc, etc!

Pharmaceutical companies spend billions of dollars on marketing drugs, but it's the governments fault that medicine cost so much?


If you have ever witnessed an FDA facility inspection (yes I have) then you may understand the increased costs of drug companies operations. The FDA does have its place, but the lack of competence of the average FDA employee negates any value. Instead drug makers are so concerned about stupid stuff that they cannot focus on their core business. So yes it very much effects the price of drugs that you and I buy.


++1. This exactly.

 

[Fleetmon]

I think the intent of the government is to do good and do what's right but unfortunately a lot of the people are in jobs thay have no business being in, couldn't care less about what they're doing, and are working for the sole purpose of a paycheck and they are supervised by a bunch of incompetent buerocratic (sp??) power-hungry idiots.

Wow - I don't think I meant to type that out loud....what I meant to type was "I think the intent of the government is to do good and do what's right but it falls short most of the time."