This was in yesterday's Chicago Tribune. I'm quoting it here because their site requires registration:
GM to offer hybrid Chevy Malibu
- Thread starter Matt_S
- Start date
- Status
They've been planning this for a while. GM's strategy is a little different then Toyota and Honda's. They are choosing to implement mild hybrid technology which can be used on almost every vehicle type, including SUVs and mass produced sedans, rather then making one or two special hybrid vehicles to get PR.
GM's reasoning is that a 10% fuel economy on a 15mpg truck saves more gas then a 20% fuel economy increase on a 35mpg car.
-T
GM's reasoning is that a 10% fuel economy on a 15mpg truck saves more gas then a 20% fuel economy increase on a 35mpg car.
-T
Maybe I'm missing something, but how is that sound reasoning?
JHZR2
Staff member
think about how many trucks sell... and how poor mileage they get. Sure more cars sell overall than trucks, but their mileage as a very solid rule is also higher by quite a bit, even for the worst ones.
One thing that most people don't realize is that it is all about gross tonnage of exhaust gasses. A SULEV full size pickup is still going to make more CO2, etc. regardless of how complete or catalyzed the combustion is, compared to the dirtiest 20 year old car that got 40 mpg.
Diesels may soot and give out NOx, but a 46 MPG diesel will put out less tonnage of exhaust gasses than that super-patriotic, super large v-10 SUV that gets 12 MPG but is rated as super-ultra low emissions and california emissions certified.
Lets face it. Selling all the priuses toyota can does not change the fact that their tundra and other V8 trucks get lousy mileage. GM may not offer as striking mileage as the prius, but lots more people will be saving some, putting more $$$ back into their pockets in terms of fuel costs, and less fuel used. Its just two different ways of going about a common goal.
Good for GM to make the technology more available, even if it is a more mild version.
JMH
One thing that most people don't realize is that it is all about gross tonnage of exhaust gasses. A SULEV full size pickup is still going to make more CO2, etc. regardless of how complete or catalyzed the combustion is, compared to the dirtiest 20 year old car that got 40 mpg.
Diesels may soot and give out NOx, but a 46 MPG diesel will put out less tonnage of exhaust gasses than that super-patriotic, super large v-10 SUV that gets 12 MPG but is rated as super-ultra low emissions and california emissions certified.
Lets face it. Selling all the priuses toyota can does not change the fact that their tundra and other V8 trucks get lousy mileage. GM may not offer as striking mileage as the prius, but lots more people will be saving some, putting more $$$ back into their pockets in terms of fuel costs, and less fuel used. Its just two different ways of going about a common goal.
Good for GM to make the technology more available, even if it is a more mild version.
JMH
Think about the course of a 1000 mile trip.
A 15mpg SUV uses 66.6 gallons of gas.
A 16.5mpg SUV uses 60.6 gallons of gas.
They saved 6 gallons.
A 35mpg car uses 28.5 gallons of gas.
A 42mpg car uses 23.8 gallons of gas.
They saved 4.7 gallons.
-T
20K miles
20K/15mpg = 1333 15 X 110% = 16.5
20K/16.5mpg= 1212
_________________
difference = 121
20K/35mpg = 571 35 X 120% = 42
20K/42mpg = 476
_________________
difference = 95
121 > 95
JHZR2
Staff member
And regenerative braking is where its at! All cars need this; it disgusts me at how muchenergy is wasted by the jerks that speed up and slow down way too abruptly in traffic jams. Even more, I believe there was a european study I have somewhere that stated that 0.5% of the entire european GDP is wasted by the losses due to traffic jams on the roads.
man, if only I could regenerate some of my braking energy when sitting in the stupiod traffic jams... I think I wouldnt get as ****** off. Regen braking... drool...
JMH
Thanks. All I can say is that I guess I had a brain **** .
Really? I wouldn't have thought this to be the case in regards to tonnage of exhaust gasses.
JHZR2,
So you're saying a 20 year old car that still gets 40 mpg today? I thought you were saying a 20 year old car that got 40 mpg back in the day. Because if the car is only getting 15 mpg, the pickup might be getting 25 mpg.
So you're saying a 20 year old car that still gets 40 mpg today? I thought you were saying a 20 year old car that got 40 mpg back in the day. Because if the car is only getting 15 mpg, the pickup might be getting 25 mpg.
JHZR2
Staff member
Its the same principle as T-Kieth's note about a 1000 mile trip and how many gallons of fuel were used.
For every gallon of fuel consumed, so many pounds of CO2, CO, water, etc come out. Its pretty standard, the sensors in the car really just tweak the mixtures to optimize mileage a bit and ensure that its not too rich or lean. The catalytic converters just change the more harmful gasses like carbon monoxide to less harmful ones like carbon dioxide.
The standard chemical reaction that goes on is that:
hydrocarbon + oxygen => CO2 + water
Sometimes it isnt fully complete and you get smaller hydrocarbons, monoxide, etc. However, regardless of engine, one gallon of fuel puts out some amount (mass cannot be created or destroyed, and input = output) of gases that are chemically different from what went in. Oxygen went in, carbon dioxide (greenhouse gas) comes out... there's no escaping it.
So, yes, while the relative concntrations of some of the pollutants like nitrogen oxides and carbon monoxide may be less on the newer vehicle. The overall amount of exhaust gasses, including the greenhouse gas CO2, etc. are more simply becuase youre burning more fuel...
JMH
The Saturn VUE hybrid is already resembling vaporware (delayed). GM is moving pretty slowly.
California's CO2 emissions quota is basically a local CAFE requirement. The feds let them regulate emissions because they're grandfathered in, CARB before Clean Air Act. (Apparently cali can't dictate fuel economy directly so they're going at it indirectly.) Detroit ain't happy, they're trying to get the feds to step in.
'Mild' hybrids are a cop-out. With the battery technology that is out there today, a strong hybrid like Prius is the best way to go. GM has been in denial about hybrid technology for a long time, instead sucking up government money to work on hydrogen fuel cell stuff. In the meantime, Toyota and Honda are rolling right along with more efficient vehicles as gas prices climb. GM - too little, too late.
replace "different" with "****** **" and i would agree.
if they are going to make hybrids they should go all the way, not offer half cocked stripped down models and then call them mild versions. "mild" would be the girly sauce at taco bell. a hybrid like gm is thinking about building would have to be called "lame".
i think the real problem is that people still drive trucks and suv's for the fashon. i saw a tlc show on trucks and it said that there are more trucks sold in the us than cars!
we need $6.00/gallon fuel prices and i can GUARINTEE the usa yearly automobile net emissions would drop by a HUGE ammount.
Uh the main difference between a "mild" hybrid and Toyota's is that the vehicle doesn't move without the gas engine. Most of the benefit a fraction of the cost. Also instead of offering it in only one vehicle, they are offering it in several.
- Status
