Not sure how reliable that study is for current cars. Published 8 years ago and the ratings will include cars years before 2016.This isn't a survey based study. Mechanics who work at independent dealerships nationwide inspect and appraise the overall condition of powertrains with advanced diagnostic systems.
Those bias free results are what you see online.
** Long-Term Quality Index – Three Million Used Cars Inspected From 1993 To Today **
Automotive Reliabilitywww.dashboard-light.com
Did we reach peak frugality 15 years ago?
- Thread starter macarose
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My take is that the electronic parts in modern appliances are now cheaper to just replace than the cost of labor to diagnose as well as travel time on crowded roads. Had an issue with a new stove, the tech diagnosed the issue in 60 seconds as a main control board. When the part comes in he will install it in ten minutes.
I suspect the reason being is much like some mechanics in the old days didnt want to work on cars with those new fangled electronic ignition and computer/emission systems saying they were impossible to fix vs points, condenser, rotor and distributor cap as well as fuel pump that they all knew.
There are a few things I see on the general trends:
1) The natural low hanging fruits are picked, we already got a lot of the "everyone can do this" low hanging fruits on products in general, so new products tend to be more sophisticated and incremental improvements over the past: significantly more expensive, but marginally better. So they tend to be either cheaper / same price but not as durable after adjusting for inflation, or significantly more expensive but slightly better. This happens in appliances, cars, homes, video games, movies, computers, electronics, etc. We don't always have ground breaking completely new stuff coming out all the time, and eventually settle for this.
2) We are trading off running cost with initial purchase cost. We either used to pay a lot of running cost because the initial purchase cost is more expensive (i.e. less efficient appliances, cars, etc) and we are now paying more up front but the efficiency is better. In the long run it is hard to tell in general and we need to do the math. I would probably not able to get a 90s peak Corolla durability but if I'm only getting 26 mpg is it really worth keeping that Corolla? or should I upgrade to a 10 year newer not as good Corolla getting me 40mpg? Or the 78% efficient furnace vs a 95% condensing one? or a 7SEER AC vs a 18 SEER one? How far back do you go?
3) People are now more fashion focus than before. When you need 1 month of salary to buy a fridge or stove you probably won't be too picky about style. If it is 2 weeks maybe your wife would want to change it because it doesn't look fashionable. Why would people want a red shiny washing machine? They probably won't regret it unless it break down, and would just blame others (manufacturer) instead of themselves (throwing out the old one) still.
4) We have now migrated to a generation of "we own nothing" so even if you want to buy a washing machine that last 30 years, the "cost of ownership" of throwing away periodically may still be cheaper than buying, repairing, and running a more durable one.
1) The natural low hanging fruits are picked, we already got a lot of the "everyone can do this" low hanging fruits on products in general, so new products tend to be more sophisticated and incremental improvements over the past: significantly more expensive, but marginally better. So they tend to be either cheaper / same price but not as durable after adjusting for inflation, or significantly more expensive but slightly better. This happens in appliances, cars, homes, video games, movies, computers, electronics, etc. We don't always have ground breaking completely new stuff coming out all the time, and eventually settle for this.
2) We are trading off running cost with initial purchase cost. We either used to pay a lot of running cost because the initial purchase cost is more expensive (i.e. less efficient appliances, cars, etc) and we are now paying more up front but the efficiency is better. In the long run it is hard to tell in general and we need to do the math. I would probably not able to get a 90s peak Corolla durability but if I'm only getting 26 mpg is it really worth keeping that Corolla? or should I upgrade to a 10 year newer not as good Corolla getting me 40mpg? Or the 78% efficient furnace vs a 95% condensing one? or a 7SEER AC vs a 18 SEER one? How far back do you go?
3) People are now more fashion focus than before. When you need 1 month of salary to buy a fridge or stove you probably won't be too picky about style. If it is 2 weeks maybe your wife would want to change it because it doesn't look fashionable. Why would people want a red shiny washing machine? They probably won't regret it unless it break down, and would just blame others (manufacturer) instead of themselves (throwing out the old one) still.
4) We have now migrated to a generation of "we own nothing" so even if you want to buy a washing machine that last 30 years, the "cost of ownership" of throwing away periodically may still be cheaper than buying, repairing, and running a more durable one.
I replaced a WP washer a couple years ago. Manual top loader. It had to have a couple repairs and finally the balancing springs went and even though I'd heard stories about the new energy efficient ones, I decided it was time. $ more than what I bought both washer and dryer for. First one didn't seem to be rinsing properly so Lowes took it back and I got another for a few $$ more. It still seems to not rinse properly on occasion. I never had a problem with the top loader, but the current front loader does seem to be much more gentle on the clothing...less lint in dryer. So if you want your clothes rinsed out better, at least in my case, you have to put in more rinse time, which uses more water and electric. It already runs twice the time as the old top and the extra rinse is 3x! How is this more efficient and green?
Just for fun I just looked on Craigslist for Speed Queens and found an older, top loading, manual one with all dials for $400. I would have liked to have had that instead of the current one. It would probably outlast it, too!
Just for fun I just looked on Craigslist for Speed Queens and found an older, top loading, manual one with all dials for $400. I would have liked to have had that instead of the current one. It would probably outlast it, too!
Redid our kitchen in 2011. New gas stove and dishwasher, both from Sears. Both have needed repairs, which I did at home.
Stove took two control boards and two igniters, all independently.
Dishwasher broke the little wheel holder on the side of the rack that lets it slide in and out. MacGyvered something. Also broke off a dish-holding-prong because rust got in there somehow and weakened it.
I still like cars from the fuel injected, but not OBD-II era. I have always liked them and still do. My 91 F150 is oh-so-amazing. Son's 99 Camry doesn't qualify but is still from that golden era.
The only things we're doing better on are computers, phones, and cameras.
As for frugality... maybe! Look at the dearth of subcompact sedans being sold new, now. We used to be able to count on "someone else" buying economical vehicles and taking the depreciation hit.
Stove took two control boards and two igniters, all independently.
Dishwasher broke the little wheel holder on the side of the rack that lets it slide in and out. MacGyvered something. Also broke off a dish-holding-prong because rust got in there somehow and weakened it.
I still like cars from the fuel injected, but not OBD-II era. I have always liked them and still do. My 91 F150 is oh-so-amazing. Son's 99 Camry doesn't qualify but is still from that golden era.
The only things we're doing better on are computers, phones, and cameras.
As for frugality... maybe! Look at the dearth of subcompact sedans being sold new, now. We used to be able to count on "someone else" buying economical vehicles and taking the depreciation hit.
Sometimes individual electronics modules for washers, stoves, etc can be a significant fraction of the original purchase price of the entire appliance. Not uncommon to see relatively new appliances scrapped because the repair parts are 75% of what a new appliance costs.
LG and Samsung are well-known to make garbage-tier appliances in a lot of categories.
I bought my current house 5 years ago and it had new appliances throughout. I replaced the dishwasher a few years ago after throwing a few parts at it that failed within 6 months. The fridge crapped out last year, the dryer died when the element broke a year ago, I replaced it again a year later and now is throwing an overheat code so probably needs a sensor of some kind.
The house was built in 1978 and has 2 furnaces. One is a Coleman furnace original to the house that has never had a problem. The other one is a Goodman(iirc) replaced in the 90's. I had to replace both the exhaust motor and blower motor in the last few years and then a relay on the circuit board that kicks on the ignitor crapped out earlier this winter during a cold snap. I refused to buy a new furnace or new circuit board for $600+ so bought a used circuit board from ebay and waited. Most recently our stove started acting up too.
I didn't realize til recently that Samsung was a Korean company. Are they basically the Hyunda/Kia of the appliance world?
The house was built in 1978 and has 2 furnaces. One is a Coleman furnace original to the house that has never had a problem. The other one is a Goodman(iirc) replaced in the 90's. I had to replace both the exhaust motor and blower motor in the last few years and then a relay on the circuit board that kicks on the ignitor crapped out earlier this winter during a cold snap. I refused to buy a new furnace or new circuit board for $600+ so bought a used circuit board from ebay and waited. Most recently our stove started acting up too.
I didn't realize til recently that Samsung was a Korean company. Are they basically the Hyunda/Kia of the appliance world?
What you've posted is also not true.
Here's a fella with a well-maintained Honda Fit who had his CVT
the 
at 108k miles.https://www.fitfreak.net/forums/3rd-generation-2015/107938-2016-cvt-car-will-not-move-2.html
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Any more, it depends. One manufacturer may make great appliances in one segment (washers) but make absolute trash in other segments (refrigerators). Some, like Maytag (if I remember right) have different lines, with one line being relatively solid and the other being cheaply built and prone to failure significantly more often.
Having replaced a number of large appliances in the past few years, I wound up spending way more time than I expected digging through pros/cons of different brands and the stuff they make. The base rule is, the less stupid stuff an appliance has (like a built-in door tablet or wifi cameras inside to remind you to buy milk when you're at the store), the less likely you are to have problems, and those problems will likely be easier and cheaper to fix. Also, water dispensers and ice makers in refrigerators = significantly increased chances of expensive parts failures.
The question would be who makes good ones?
Even more, so when surveys reveal Samsung and LG most favored.
What else would you personally choose?
American owned whirlpool refrigerator? Have you looked at them lately?
Or would you prefer Chinese owned GE refrigerator?
You would need some kind of data to support your statement. Blanket statements just are not true.
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It depends on what you need. The last thing I had to replace was a 15-year old Whirlpool washer. Checked reviews online, though Maytag or Whirlpool again for a top-loader. Nope. LG, very surprisingly, had some of the best reviews for a simple top-loader clothes washer. Their refrigerators are universally panned, but strangely enough their washers are actually pretty good.
DIshwashers, Bosch gets good reviews for quietness and cleaning, but gets hammered on reliability. Did some reading and ended up with a Kitchenaid, which wouldn't have been in my top 5 at all going in.
It's a lot more messy than it was 20 or even 10 years ago, especially with a lot of the "domestic" manufacturers like Maytag and Whirlpool having different model lines.
What you posted above is a more accurate statement. I was just pointing out blanket statements about any one brand by calling Samsung and LG trash are not accurate.
Go into Best Buy or Home Depot or Lowe’s home-improvement store.
Check out the fit, look and finish of an LG refrigerator or Samsung. Compare to a whirlpool refrigerator. We gladly bought the LG refrigerator because the new whirlpool feels and looks like garbage..
No new appliances are going last 15 to 20 years anymore no matter what the brand is.
But we weren’t going to have a whirlpool refrigerator with sloppy construction and inferior finish with cheap shelves in our gourmet kitchen and look at it for the next 10 years
The data has been updated continuously for over a decade and now has nearly 4.8 million vehicles in the study.
The last update was last month.
https://www.dashboard-light.com/rankings.html
You keep posting that, but where does it say modern CVT's are garbage? I don't see that level of granularity.
Fascinating! Interesting to see the VW Routan fares significantly worse than the Dodge Grand Caravan and Chrysler T&C. Perhaps that's due to the weird SOHC 4.0?
Look at the models which feature along with the years and you'll see an obvious trend.
Well CRV looks BETTER with the CVT, a LOT better. But that's not data, that's.......guessing.............assuming by looking a "drivetrain"
Show me with hard facts modern Honda, Toyota CVT's are trash. Not one or two people with issues. Not fuzzy model reliability.
A few years ago I advised my daughter to buy a Samsung TV (58"). It lasted 2 years and with her and her husband both working it didn't have constant use either. I've heard many stories since about Samsung being junk. My 4 year old Samsung cell phone just bit the dust...people could hear me but I couldn't hear them. I finally got an I-phone. I now avoid Samsung and pretty much anything else made in Korea....China too... which is hard to do these days.
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