Dexos liscensing isn't THAT difficult to get.

Status
Not open for further replies.
Originally Posted By: ExMachina
Originally Posted By: MolaKule
Basically, I see Dexos as fulfilling two objectives:

1.) Adding an income stream for GM,

2.) Reducing warranty claims for GM.


I see the warranty-claims issue, but what I'd like to see is even higher spec requirements for turbo engines, and engines that see severe service maybe.
Like, GM should say SN-GF5 is good enough for easy going engines, and step up to a more stringent dexos (tougher than the current dexos) for turbo engines, high perf apps, and severe service. This one size fits all spec is a little too simple for my tastes.


Who gets to determine what is an "easy going" engine?

Are you saying that dexos1 oil isn't good enough for a turbo equipped automobile?
 
Originally Posted By: stchman

Who gets to determine what is an "easy going" engine?

Are you saying that dexos1 oil isn't good enough for a turbo equipped automobile?


GM engineers could decide which engines are easier on oil than others. For example, I'd think the normally aspirated V8s are pretty easy on oil. Maybe its as simple as saying turbo or non-turbo to divide it up. Then there is the concept of severe service that could enter in.

I think if you have a turbo, you need to be using a synthetic that takes the heat better. dexos is OK for turbos only minimally. I'd like to see an HTO-06 full synthetic in a turbo for less oxidation.
 
Well, since the manual for my 2013 1500 5.3 said "dexos1 or equivalent", and GM has put out a TSB on the 20w oils stating that ILSAC GF-5 is an ok substitute for dexos1, I really don't worry about it one way or the other. Even for my new 2015 2500HD 6.0L. Seems to me, based on the examples from above, that the main reason GM touts a specific spec and gives the impression that they demand it, is that they want to try and prevent less informed folks from putting some goofy motor oil made from dog snot in their motors. I really think it is just that simple. They have to factor in the lowest common denominator amongst end users, so they wave banners and shout from the mountain to use only a dexos1 product to get people's attention focused on what they are putting in their motors.

I use an oil from a very reputable source, of the correct viscosity rating that GM wants in there, and the oil manufacturer claims API SN, ILSAC GF-5, and dexos1 compliance. It is not on the "approved" list and that is between GM and them. I lose no sleep over it one way or the other.
 
Originally Posted By: ExMachina
Originally Posted By: stchman

Who gets to determine what is an "easy going" engine?

Are you saying that dexos1 oil isn't good enough for a turbo equipped automobile?


GM engineers could decide which engines are easier on oil than others. For example, I'd think the normally aspirated V8s are pretty easy on oil. Maybe its as simple as saying turbo or non-turbo to divide it up. Then there is the concept of severe service that could enter in.

I think if you have a turbo, you need to be using a synthetic that takes the heat better. dexos is OK for turbos only minimally. I'd like to see an HTO-06 full synthetic in a turbo for less oxidation.


Those easy on oil V8s might be in a work truck that gets the heck beaten out of it all day, towing, driving in really dirty conditions, constant idling, etc., and the hard on oil turbo might be driven easily.

Isn't HTO-06 a Honda specification? IIRC, Honda isn't making too many turbo cars.
 
Originally Posted By: TiredTrucker
Well, since the manual for my 2013 1500 5.3 said "dexos1 or equivalent", and GM has put out a TSB on the 20w oils stating that ILSAC GF-5 is an ok substitute for dexos1, I really don't worry about it one way or the other. Even for my new 2015 2500HD 6.0L. .....


Do you mean this TSB (partial transcript below)?

"""""""
Question: What if the engine Is low on oil and dexos1™ 0W20 oil is not available to top off the oil level?

Answer: There are many different retailers nationwide that sell GM licensed oil products that meet the dexos1™ specification. Refer to the first section in this Bulletin: dexos 1™ and dexos 2™ Information Website

If you are unable to locate a retailer, then a GF5 Synthetic grade 0W20 oil that meets the dexos1™ specification, such as Mobil 1™ 0W-20 Advanced Fuel Economy synthetic oil can be used. It meets or exceeds International Lubricant Standardization and Approval Committee (ILSAC) GF-5 requirements.
""""""


Its funny, I read that as: If you can't locate a dexos1 0w-20 for top-off, you'd better locate a dexos1 0w-20 for top-off!
confused.gif
confused2.gif
sick.gif


FWIW, I've noticed that about any Full Synthetic oil you see will be good enough for dexos1, and even most semi-syns too. Still, I've never understood the "or equivalent" wording in the owner's manuals, as whats "equiv" to a dexos1 except actual dexos1?
 
Last edited:
Originally Posted By: ExMachina
Originally Posted By: TiredTrucker
Well, since the manual for my 2013 1500 5.3 said "dexos1 or equivalent", and GM has put out a TSB on the 20w oils stating that ILSAC GF-5 is an ok substitute for dexos1, I really don't worry about it one way or the other. Even for my new 2015 2500HD 6.0L. .....


Do you mean this TSB (partial transcript below)?

"""""""
Question: What if the engine Is low on oil and dexos1™ 0W20 oil is not available to top off the oil level?

Answer: There are many different retailers nationwide that sell GM licensed oil products that meet the dexos1™ specification. Refer to the first section in this Bulletin: dexos 1™ and dexos 2™ Information Website

If you are unable to locate a retailer, then a GF5 Synthetic grade 0W20 oil that meets the dexos1™ specification, such as Mobil 1™ 0W-20 Advanced Fuel Economy synthetic oil can be used. It meets or exceeds International Lubricant Standardization and Approval Committee (ILSAC) GF-5 requirements.
""""""


Its funny, I read that as: If you can't locate a dexos1 0w-20 for top-off, you'd better locate a dexos1 0w-20 for top-off!
confused.gif
confused2.gif
sick.gif


FWIW, I've noticed that about any Full Synthetic oil you see will be good enough for dexos1, and even most semi-syns too. Still, I've never understood the "or equivalent" wording in the owner's manuals, as whats "equiv" to a dexos1 except actual dexos1?


The way I am reading that is:

If you need more 0W-20 and are unable to locate any dexos1 approved oil you can use oil meeting the ILSAC GF-5 specification.

What is oil equivalent to dexos1, an oil that meets API SN and ILSAC GF-5 specifications?
 
Originally Posted By: stchman

The way I am reading that is:

If you need more 0W-20 and are unable to locate any dexos1 approved oil you can use oil meeting the ILSAC GF-5 specification.

What is oil equivalent to dexos1, an oil that meets API SN and ILSAC GF-5 specifications?


Except that's not what it says. Again, it says "If you are unable to locate a retailer, then a GF5 Synthetic grade 0W20 oil that meets the dexos1™ specification, such as Mobil 1™ 0W-20 Advanced Fuel Economy synthetic oil can be used."

No, SN-GF5 oils are not equivalent to dexos1 oils. The dexos1 spec has many more performance tests on top of SN-GF5, so dexos1 is a more demanding spec. So far, no conventional GroupII oil is dexos1, so that should tell you something.
 
Not being able to find dexos1 licensed or dexos1 compliant oil(Amsoil, Schaeffer's) one would have to be out in the middle of the woods.
 
Originally Posted By: ExMachina
Like, GM should say SN-GF5 is good enough for easy going engines, and step up to a more stringent dexos (tougher than the current dexos) for turbo engines, high perf apps, and severe service. This one size fits all spec is a little too simple for my tastes.

I agree completely and have said as much when dexos1 came out. But, we all know that consumers can be real dodos, and the first place they would lay the blame is the manufacturer.

As for this 0w-20 dexos1 versus Mobil 1 Advanced Fuel Economy 0w-20, was this memo written perhaps before it received formal approval or something? That's pretty strange wording, I must say.
 
It's all about the money when it comes to GM's Dexos approval and licensing. It has little to do with motor oil performance. This Dexos [censored] is all B.S.

Were there mass amounts of GM engine oil related failures before Dexos standards were enacted back in the 2011 model year?

Is Amsoil an inferior oil because they don't carry the Dexos approval emblem? Amsoil just refuses to pay them licensing royalties, but GM outlines that GM owners must use a Dexos approved oil or else.

Here is a GM TSB:

#13-00-90-001: Information for Engine Oils Used in 2014 Model Year Vehicles - (Jun 27, 2013)
Subject: Information for Engine Oils Used in 2014 Model Year Vehicles

Models: 2014 GM Passenger Cars and Trucks


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

dexos1™ and dexos2™ Information Website
Refer to the following General Motors website for dexos1™ and dexos2™ information about the different licensed brands that are currently available: http://www.gmdexos.com

dexos1™ Engine Oil Trademark and Registered Trademark Logos


Object ID: 3511747Click here for detailed picture of the image.



Object ID: 3512027Click here for detailed picture of the image.



Only those oils displaying the dexos1™ trademark and a registered trademark logo on the front label of the container meet the demanding performance requirements and stringent quality standards set forth in the dexos1™ specification.

Look on the front label for either of the registered trademark logos shown above and the 11 digit alphanumeric dexos® license number on the back label to identify an authorized, licensed dexos1™ engine oil. Unless an oil package displays these two markings, the engine oil is not an authentic, licensed dexos® product and is not recommended for use in GM vehicles.

dexos1™ Engine Oil Specification
The dexos1™ specification was uniquely designed to complement the exacting requirements of GM's advanced engine technology. The specification has gone through an extensive developmental and testing process. It requires a number of proprietary tests that are not included in current industry standards and sets performance criteria at a level that exceeds many current standards. The result is a high performance fluid providing significant wear protection, improved piston cleanliness, a reduction in volatility and oil consumption, enhanced aeration control for improved fuel efficiency, and better oxidation properties.



The reasons for the new dexos1™ engine oil specification are as follows:

•To meet environmental goals such as increasing fuel efficiency and reducing engine emissions.
•To promote long engine life.
•To minimize the number of engine oil changes in order to help meet the goal of lessening the industry's overall dependence on crude oil.
dexos1™ is a GM-developed engine oil specification that has been designed to provide the following benefits:

•Further improve fuel economy, to meet future corporate average fuel economy (CAFE) requirements and fuel economy retention by allowing the oil to maintain its fuel economy benefits throughout the life of the oil.
•More robust formulations for added engine protection and aeration performance.
•Support the GM Oil Life System, thereby minimizing the replacement of engine oil, before its life has been depleted.
•Reduce the duplication of requirements for a large number of internal GM engine oil specifications.
Frequently Asked Questions About dexos1™ 0W20 Engine Oil


Question: Why dexos1™ 0W20 engine oil?

Answer: The new 5.3L and 6.2L V8 EcoTec3 engines available in the completely redesigned 2014 Silverado 1500 and Sierra 1500 pickup trucks are the most fuel efficient and technologically advanced engines in the market.

These engines utilize an advanced combustion system that maximizes the potential of the direct injection (DI) fuel system, active fuel management (AFM), variable valve timing (VVT), two stage oil pumps and other technologies. The dexos1™ 0W20 oil supports these technologies and is an enabler for the improved fuel economy performance that is exhibited in these products.



Question: Are other automobile manufacturers recommending 0W20 engine oil for their products?

Answer: Some other manufacturers are already recommending 0W20 engine oil for their products. General Motors expects this to become an industry trend and more automobile manufacturers will be recommending the use of 0W20 engine oil in the future.



Question: What do the numbers 0W20 represent?

Answer: 0W20 represents the standard SAE measurement of oil viscosity. Viscosity is a measurement of the oil’s resistance to flow. The more resistant the oil is to flow, the higher its viscosity.



Question: If dexos1™ 0W20 oil is recommended for my vehicle’s engine, do I have to use it?

Answer: Yes. As an example, the 5.3L and 6.2L V8 EcoTec3 engines available in the 2014 Silverado 1500 and Sierra 1500 pickup trucks, were designed, engineered, validated and EPA certified using dexos1™ 0W20 oil. This is the ONLY oil approved for these engines.



Question: What if the engine Is low on oil and dexos1™ 0W20 oil is not available to top off the oil level?

Answer: There are many different retailers nationwide that sell GM licensed oil products that meet the dexos1™ specification. Refer to the first section in this Bulletin: dexos 1™ and dexos 2™ Information Website

If you are unable to locate a retailer, then a GF5 Synthetic grade 0W20 oil that meets the dexos1™ specification, such as Mobil 1™ 0W-20 Advanced Fuel Economy synthetic oil can be used. It meets or exceeds International Lubricant Standardization and Approval Committee (ILSAC) GF-5 requirements.



Question: Can another oil such as 5W30 that is cheaper and more widely available be used in place of dexos1™ 0W20 oil?

Answer: No. The 5.3L and 6.2L V8 EcoTec3 engines available in the 2014 Silverado 1500 and Sierra 1500 pickup trucks were designed, engineered and validated to run using dexos1™ 0W20 oil. This is the ONLY oil approved for these engines.



Question: What if a different viscosity oil is added to the engine other than dexos1™ 0W20 oil?

Answer: If a different viscosity oil is added to the engine other than dexos1™ 0W20 oil, GM recommends that an oil change be performed as soon as practical, but no longer than the next scheduled oil change. in order to return the engine to the original dexos1™ 0W20 oil factory requirements.



Question: Will using a different viscosity oil other than what is recommended damage the engine?

Answer: It is not possible to comment on every type and viscosity of oil that is available. Some higher viscosity oils may impact engine and fuel economy performance. Likewise for example, using a lower viscosity oil in an engine that requires 5W30 oil may not provide appropriate lubrication and may impact engine and fuel economy performance.

Always follow GM recommendations and only use the oil specified in the GM Service Manual and/or the GM Owner Manual for the appropriate Model Year/Vehicle/Engine.



Question: When will dexos1™ 0W20 oil be available to Service Agents (Dealers)?

Answers: In the United States, dexos1™ 0W20 oil is currently available at retailers nationwide in 1 qt and 5 qt containers.

In the United States, Mobil 1™ 0W20 oil is currently available in quart/drum/bulk through the GM Oil Program.

In the United States, Customer Care and Aftersales (CCA) will release pricing and availability for ACDelco dexos1™ 0W20 oil as soon as it becomes available.

In Canada, Mobil 1™ 0W20 oil is currently available in 1 L and 4.4 L sizes through the GM Oil Program.

In Canada, Customer Care and Aftersales (CCA) will release pricing and availability for ACDelco dexos1™ 0W20 oil as soon as it becomes available. Refer to GM of Canada Bulletin GMP2013-149.



Question: Can Service Agents stop using/selling other oil weights in lieu of dexos1™ 0W20 oil?

Answer: That’s an individual decision that GM Service Agents will need to make based on the vehicles they are servicing. GM Powertrain has approved the use of 0W20 oil for applications specifying 5W20 oil.



Question: What is the oil with filter capacity for the new 5.3L and 6.2L V8 EcoTec3 engines used in the 2014 Silverado 1500 and Sierra 1500 5.3L and 6.2L V8 EcoTec3 engines?

Answer: The oil with filter capacity has increased to 8.5qt (8.0L) in order to support the advanced technology used in the engines, ensure proper engine oil cooling, aeration control and vehicle performance.



Question: Can dexos2™ 5W30 be used in a Duramax® diesel engine?

Answer: No. The Duramax® diesel engine requires using the API CJ-4 specification, 15W40 and in cold weather 5W40 oil. This specification oil MUST be used. Refer to the section in this Bulletin titled: Duramax® Diesel Engine Oil

GM Oil Life System in Conjunction With dexos1™ Supports Extended Oil Change Intervals
To help conserve oil while maintaining engine protection, many GM vehicles are equipped with the GM Oil Life System. This system can provide oil change intervals that exceed the traditional 3,000 mile (5,000 km) recommendation.

The dexos1™ specification, with its requirements for improved oil robustness, compliments the GM Oil Life System by supporting extended oil change intervals over the lifetime of a vehicle.

If all GM customers with GM Oil Life System equipped vehicles would use the system as intended, GM estimates that more than 100 million gallons of oil could be saved annually.
 
It must be easier to design an engine and then choose the lubricant than to choose an existing lubricant (SAE SN for example), and then design an engine.
 
Thanks for posting that TSB.

A very interesting read and provides a valuable insight into the GM position on the matter.
 
Originally Posted By: GM4LIFE
It's all about the money when it comes to GM's Dexos approval and licensing. It has little to do with motor oil performance. This Dexos [censored] is all B.S.

I doubt that GM is making money hand over fist from dexos fees. In any event, people are free to vote with their wallets. Don't buy a GM product. Don't buy a dexos licensed product.
 
I have a 2011 Silverado with the 5.3 that requires dexos. I believe the dexos requirement started in 2010(maybe 2009) for the 5.3. According to the Silverado forums there haven't been any changes to the 5.3 that would make it require dexos over the previous years where they don't.

This is according to some service techs who do contribute to the boards.

Of course, in 2014 there were substantial changes to the motor that may need the dexos requirement.
 
Last edited:
Originally Posted By: Garak
Originally Posted By: GM4LIFE
It's all about the money when it comes to GM's Dexos approval and licensing. It has little to do with motor oil performance. This Dexos [censored] is all B.S.

I doubt that GM is making money hand over fist from dexos fees. In any event, people are free to vote with their wallets. Don't buy a GM product. Don't buy a dexos licensed product.


The dexos spec is real, a higher performance level than SN-GF5 oils, and a good step in the right direction. Its mostly about consolidating several oil specs from Europe and the U.S. into one worldwide spec. The royalty system is criminal, and amounts to about 9 cents a quart, depending on market volume of the oil a little bit, but still around 9 cents/quart to display the dexos symbol. Wise owners will want to use a full synthetic that is at least dexos1, while the average owner should be content with the cheapest dexos flavor they happen to get.
 
Originally Posted By: ExMachina
Originally Posted By: Garak
Originally Posted By: GM4LIFE
It's all about the money when it comes to GM's Dexos approval and licensing. It has little to do with motor oil performance. This Dexos [censored] is all B.S.

I doubt that GM is making money hand over fist from dexos fees. In any event, people are free to vote with their wallets. Don't buy a GM product. Don't buy a dexos licensed product.


The dexos spec is real, a higher performance level than SN-GF5 oils, and a good step in the right direction. Its mostly about consolidating several oil specs from Europe and the U.S. into one worldwide spec. The royalty system is criminal, and amounts to about 9 cents a quart, depending on market volume of the oil a little bit, but still around 9 cents/quart to display the dexos symbol. Wise owners will want to use a full synthetic that is at least dexos1, while the average owner should be content with the cheapest dexos flavor they happen to get.


I use the Pennzoil 50% Conv/ Synblend that meets the dexos requirement. The motor seems to run more quiet with it, even better than with the Mobil 1. It's 17.00 and some change at Walmart for the 5-Quart jug.
 
Last edited:
After all the debates on this site about dexos, is the answer really this simple? I believe you're correct.
 
Originally Posted By: ExMachina
The dexos spec is real, a higher performance level than SN-GF5 oils, and a good step in the right direction.

I don't dispute that at all. But, people still have a choice. If they think it's a big ripoff, they're free to avoid it. If they think it's useful (or simply don't care), they're free to buy it. There are non-dexos1 synthetics out there for those who are interested. Some are high end boutiques; others are from the majors.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Back
Top Bottom