Developing Oil Life Calculator, see inside.

[randomhero439]

Originally Posted By: HollowEyes
Ok, I'll bite.

2003 Subaru Outback 2.5 SOHC

3 quarts G-Oil Advanced Bio-based Synthetic 5w30 SM
1 quart Quaker State Advanced Durability 5w30 SN
.5 quart Quaker State Ultimate Durability 5w30 SN


(also know as the "clean off the shelf special")


So basically here we have a (more)synthetic blend with a TBN of 9.8. Pretty impressive ha

7000 miles or 9 months

 

[striker456]

One for my buddy:
08 Rabbit 2.5 running Castrol Edge with SPT 5w40

 

[Pop_Rivit]

I'm curious what your qualifications are to come up with the calculations. How much time have you spent in the tribology field?

I'm also curious to know how you're factoring in things such as consistently short or long trips, fuel dilution, and other factors that could more rapidly deplete an oil.

7 months ago you were a pizza delivery driver posting questions like the ones below, and now you're doing oil life calculation programs and dispensing oil advice like a BITOG Pez dispenser. Pray tell, what are the credentials that have enabled you to play expert?

Originally Posted By: randomhero439
How does Pennzoil Ultra compare to Mobil 1? Also is using such a cheap filter keeping my engine clean enough?


Originally Posted By: randomhero439

Is it normal for a car to burn a bit of oil during the initial switch to synthetic? Should i change the oil on it now since it just removed all the build up?


Originally Posted By: randomhero439
I do severe driving (pizza driver/student)

 

[NewC6]

2005 Nissan Murano, 4 QT's Pennzoil Platinum 5W-30

 

[RedHotOptima]

Originally Posted By: randomhero439


Originally Posted By: RedHotOptima
I think what you're doing is pretty cool

2011 Kia Optima SX
M1 0W-40 SN

also same car but PP 5w-30 SN


M1 0w-40: 7963 miles or 10 months
PP 5w-30: 6486 or 8 months div>


Thanks!

Looks alright IMO, maybe a little high for my engine. Experiencing fuel dilution in my GDI and its a power-dense 4 cyl turbo so i'd be hesitate to go 8k on M1 0w-40. I noticed you commented on a supercharged/turbo factor later on to a few owners, did you apply this to mine? If not what would my new numbers be?

heres my last UOA: https://bobistheoilguy.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2775341

Also based on my fuelly records average speed is ~36 mph, not sure if you account for that to determine severe/normal..

 

[randomhero439]

Originally Posted By: striker456
One for my buddy:
08 Rabbit 2.5 running Castrol Edge with SPT 5w40


10945 miles or 14 months
Originally Posted By: Pop_Rivit
I'm curious what your qualifications are to come up with the calculations. How much time have you spent in the tribology field?

I'm also curious to know how you're factoring in things such as consistently short or long trips, fuel dilution, and other factors that could more rapidly deplete an oil.

7 months ago you were a pizza delivery driver posting questions like the ones below, and now you're doing oil life calculation programs and dispensing oil advice like a BITOG Pez dispenser. Pray tell, what are the credentials that have enabled you to play expert?

Originally Posted By: randomhero439
How does Pennzoil Ultra compare to Mobil 1? Also is using such a cheap filter keeping my engine clean enough?


Originally Posted By: randomhero439

Is it normal for a car to burn a bit of oil during the initial switch to synthetic? Should i change the oil on it now since it just removed all the build up?


Originally Posted By: randomhero439
I do severe driving (pizza driver/student)


I have no specific oil related credentials. I can say im in school for Mechanical Engineering bachelor's degree with an Advance Mathematics minor. For a little while i was puzzled on how manufactures worked out the OCI they specified. As I did more research i came to the conclusion that most owners manuals makes "blanket statement" and apply the same OCI to their fleet. However usually there are a few cars that get special treatment, such as an SRT4 Neon. I focused on cars that got special treatment and read lots of UOA till i worked out a formula that did reasonably well with most cars i have tested it on. So yes im still new to this forum, but i learned quickly. Those questions i asked earlier, i had mostly already answered myself but i was curious what other people thought hence why i joined this forum. I do my research, i love oil, i love cars.

 

[randomhero439]

Originally Posted By: NewC6
2005 Nissan Murano, 4 QT's Pennzoil Platinum 5W-30


7809 miles or 10 months

Originally Posted By: RedHotOptima
Originally Posted By: randomhero439


Originally Posted By: RedHotOptima
I think what you're doing is pretty cool

2011 Kia Optima SX
M1 0W-40 SN

also same car but PP 5w-30 SN


M1 0w-40: 7963 miles or 10 months
PP 5w-30: 6486 or 8 months div>


Thanks!

Looks alright IMO, maybe a little high for my engine. Experiencing fuel dilution in my GDI and its a power-dense 4 cyl turbo so i'd be hesitate to go 8k on M1 0w-40. I noticed you commented on a supercharged/turbo factor later on to a few owners, did you apply this to mine? If not what would my new numbers be?

heres my last UOA: https://bobistheoilguy.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2775341

Also based on my fuelly records average speed is ~36 mph, not sure if you account for that to determine severe/normal..



I did notice shortly after i gave you a recommendation that my factor was a little on the high side for some engines, and a little low for others. So i decided to take a middle ground with it. With the new factor i get 7277 miles or 9 months. However with the direct injection engines causing dilution issues, i could use a lower number in the factor and get 6321 miles or 8 months.

The UOA was good aside from the oil shearing to a 30 grade. TBN looked nice for a DI Turbo. The car is specified for 5w-40 or 5-30 correct? So even though it has sheared a bit, its still within the specified grade. Ill make a note of this case on my spreadsheet. Ill give a range for a DI engine from now on.

 

[panthermike]

Originally Posted By: randomhero439
Originally Posted By: panthermike
2003 Toyota Corolla 1.8L: Amsoil OE 5w30

2012 Honda Civic 1.8L: Amsoil OE 0w20


Toyota: 7729 miles or 10 months
Civic: 7255 miles or 9 months

Amsoil OE kinda sucks IMO


Thanks for calculating for me, why do you think Amsoil OE sucks?

 

[randomhero439]

Originally Posted By: panthermike
Originally Posted By: randomhero439
Originally Posted By: panthermike
2003 Toyota Corolla 1.8L: Amsoil OE 5w30

2012 Honda Civic 1.8L: Amsoil OE 0w20


Toyota: 7729 miles or 10 months
Civic: 7255 miles or 9 months

Amsoil OE kinda sucks IMO


Thanks for calculating for me, why do you think Amsoil OE sucks?


Well sucks was kinda harsh. The TBN is kinda low at 7.9. The NOACK is pretty high at 12.6%, HTHS is good for a 0w-20 however (2.7) Viscosity index is a little weak a group III oil (166).

 

[Pablo]

The larger question, what makes your formula better than Too Slick's?

And why are the few old timers here not posting TS's formula or even remembering this old stuff?

 

[Jim Allen]

Originally Posted By: Pablo
The larger question, what makes your formula better than Too Slick's?

And why are the few old timers here not posting TS's formula or even remembering this old stuff?


Oh, I remember Pablo. Just wanted to give the guy an chance to present and test his idea.

FYI, here is a link to the '03 discussion: OCI Formula which includes TS's actual formula.

I wasn't overly impressed with TS' then. It wa better than some blanket statement or arbitrary mileage number but I wonder if enough variables are considered for it to truly be tailored to a particular vehicle.

 

[Pop_Rivit]

Originally Posted By: randomhero439

I have no specific oil related credentials. I can say im in school for Mechanical Engineering bachelor's degree with an Advance Mathematics minor. For a little while i was puzzled on how manufactures worked out the OCI they specified. As I did more research i came to the conclusion that most owners manuals makes "blanket statement" and apply the same OCI to their fleet. However usually there are a few cars that get special treatment, such as an SRT4 Neon. I focused on cars that got special treatment and read lots of UOA till i worked out a formula that did reasonably well with most cars i have tested it on. So yes im still new to this forum, but i learned quickly. Those questions i asked earlier, i had mostly already answered myself but i was curious what other people thought hence why i joined this forum. I do my research, i love oil, i love cars.


Ah-I see. Boiled down-you read about it on the Internet, and that made you expert enough to dispense oil change interval advice. You have time to do all of that, and you have time to answer all of the questions, but you don't have time to make your "magic spreadsheet" available for peer review.

I'll give you credit for your creativity, but nothing more.

 

[Hokiefyd]

Originally Posted By: randomhero439
CR-V: 8132 miles or 10 months 7798 miles or 10 months MDX: 7133 miles or 9 months 6844 miles or 9 months div>


Thanks for your reply. Those numbers are fairly close to what Honda recommends using standard API SL/SM oil. The CR-V gets MM oil change intervals, typically between 7-9k miles. The MDX doesn't have a MM, but as I recall, the book calls for 7,500 mile OCIs. I've been doing 5k mile OCIs, but am considering stretching it to 7,500 miles.

 

[Hokiefyd]

Originally Posted By: Jim Allen
Originally Posted By: Pablo
The larger question, what makes your formula better than Too Slick's?

And why are the few old timers here not posting TS's formula or even remembering this old stuff?


Oh, I remember Pablo. Just wanted to give the guy an chance to present and test his idea.

FYI, here is a link to the '03 discussion: OCI Formula which includes TS's actual formula.


I have a friend in Michigan who tracks his fuel economy and OCI (using the Honda MM) on both of his vehicles since new. The one correlation he drew between both of them (a 1.5L I-4 and a 3.5L V-6) is that as fuel consumption increased, the MM OCI decreased. Too Slick's formula seems to at least go along with that theory, that these algorithms may be using fuel consumption as a relatively influential variable in the calculation. Randomhero's calculator apparently doesn't take into account the average length of trips, but if a multiplier were influenced by some measure of fuel consumption/fuel economy, then short tripping would be accounted-for to some degree.

Interesting stuff.

 

[Quattro Pete]

Originally Posted By: Pablo
And why are the few old timers here not posting TS's formula or even remembering this old stuff?

I posted it, if you go back a few pages.

 

[Vikas]

what exactly is the value of the this exercise to the *other* people? certainly, it could be one of the factor that you could use in making your own decision about OCI but it is non-authoritative. It is a good and fun exercise but that is about it.

Some of you are getting pretty overboard with this.

I never thought there would come a time when I would be agreeing with the Pop but this might be the case.

 

[RedHotOptima]

Originally Posted By: Vikas


Some of you are getting pretty overboard with this.



Lol, I would think those like Pop and older members that are displaying anger towards a young man trying to make up an algorithum based on UOAs and past example calculations are the ones going overboard. Do those that question him really think you need 25 years experience in the field to create a generic equation?? This site is a great resource of UOA, perhaps better than many manufacturer's sample sizes. Nothing wrong with him taking a stab at it with these resources and fine tuning it based on the feedback in this very thread, etc.

Originally Posted By: Pablo
The larger question, what makes your formula better than Too Slick's?

And why are the few old timers here not posting TS's formula or even remembering this old stuff?


Too Slick's is smart but doesnt account for the specific oil. Using his formula I get a generic 6,387 miles OCI. With what though? Its lumping in me running 5w-30 dino verse 5w-40 syn as the same mileage. Both a spec'd for my 2.0T GDI 274 HP engine, one will not last as long as the other of course. Obviously randomhero is trying to account for the specific oil used while tooslicks has not. Maybe a blend of both equations is needed. Maybe randomhero is looking into that?...

 

[RedHotOptima]

Originally Posted By: randomhero439
Originally Posted By: NewC6
2005 Nissan Murano, 4 QT's Pennzoil Platinum 5W-30


7809 miles or 10 months

Originally Posted By: RedHotOptima
Originally Posted By: randomhero439


Originally Posted By: RedHotOptima
I think what you're doing is pretty cool

2011 Kia Optima SX
M1 0W-40 SN

also same car but PP 5w-30 SN


M1 0w-40: 7963 miles or 10 months
PP 5w-30: 6486 or 8 months div>


Thanks!

Looks alright IMO, maybe a little high for my engine. Experiencing fuel dilution in my GDI and its a power-dense 4 cyl turbo so i'd be hesitate to go 8k on M1 0w-40. I noticed you commented on a supercharged/turbo factor later on to a few owners, did you apply this to mine? If not what would my new numbers be?

heres my last UOA: https://bobistheoilguy.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2775341

Also based on my fuelly records average speed is ~36 mph, not sure if you account for that to determine severe/normal..



I did notice shortly after i gave you a recommendation that my factor was a little on the high side for some engines, and a little low for others. So i decided to take a middle ground with it. With the new factor i get 7277 miles or 9 months. However with the direct injection engines causing dilution issues, i could use a lower number in the factor and get 6321 miles or 8 months.

The UOA was good aside from the oil shearing to a 30 grade. TBN looked nice for a DI Turbo. The car is specified for 5w-40 or 5-30 correct? So even though it has sheared a bit, its still within the specified grade. Ill make a note of this case on my spreadsheet. Ill give a range for a DI engine from now on.


Thanks looks better now IMO. Would be curious how the "new way" works out on some other DI owners.

 

[Quattro Pete]

Originally Posted By: Vikas
what exactly is the value of the this exercise to the *other* people? certainly, it could be one of the factor that you could use in making your own decision about OCI but it is non-authoritative. It is a good and fun exercise but that is about it.

Agreed, and I'm assuming that BITOG members are treating it as such. I don't think anyone is just blindly accepting the OCI numbers coming out of this calculator and committing to adhere to them.

 

[yesthatsteve]

Originally Posted By: Quattro Pete
Originally Posted By: Vikas
what exactly is the value of the this exercise to the *other* people? certainly, it could be one of the factor that you could use in making your own decision about OCI but it is non-authoritative. It is a good and fun exercise but that is about it.

Agreed, and I'm assuming that BITOG members are treating it as such. I don't think anyone is just blindly accepting the OCI numbers coming out of this calculator and committing to adhere to them.




It's an interesting exercise, and has me thinking about what factors go into such a logarithm. Sump size, syn/blend/conventional, fuel use, timing belt/chain, HP/CI (or CI/HP), additive packages, driving conditions, easy/regular/severe service, etc.

Either way, I'm reluctant to run the older formulation G-oil in the xB for ~10k, and willing to run MSHM in the Ody a bit longer than the ~5k earlier recommended. Both our vehicles run on the easier side of regular service, with 60-80% highway miles. UOA results posted here suggest the oils are good for 7k or so in their respective applications. I may do a UOA of either or both when I drain in the spring.