Despise Chrysler Vehicles?

I don't know where you are getting your information on "Jeep, Ram, and Dodge all make plenty of money and do well for Stellantis" and the "balance sheet is as healthy or healthier than most in its peer group."

"Jeep, Dodge maker Stellantis reports 48% drop in first-half net profit on weak U.S. sales"​

https://www.cnbc.com/2024/07/25/stellantis-h1-earnings-2024.html
https://www.seattletimes.com/busine...chrysler-jeep-and-ram-is-struggling-analysis/

Chrysler, Dodge, Jeep and Ram have some of the highest unsold new inventory in the U.S. See this chart. Ram is so high it is off the chart. View attachment 246636

If you have information to the contrary please post it.

Stellantis is just the latest in the list of corporate mismanagement of Chrysler. Daimler, Cerrubus (sp?), FCA, and now Stellantis have done the brand no favors.
I don’t want to argue. You can lose sales and still make money you are just making less money or losing money even. And unsold inventory does impact the company no question. Candidly, your having the wrong impression here is another example of financial reporters not looking at company financials. Sales can be up a great deal but if per unit profit sucks and the company is coming off low sales, that may sound better but be irrelevant. Similarly sales can be down a lot but if per unit sales are profitable and they are coming off record highs, that may not be as bad as it sounds- even your headline acknowledges that profits are down but that is not a loss. Directional numbers without any baseline or centering data can be misleading. We will know more when the 2024 year end financials are published.

Listen my point isn’t to argue everything is hunky dory at Chrysler in the U.S. Dealers don’t publicly complain about the company if it is. But some here and in the press are talking about viability and that is unfounded based on the financials. (The bulk of the news including the unsold inventory, is really that Stellantis does not want to rely on incentives to push volume. The plan is for premium pricing based on desirability of the product. Tavares cut back on incentives tremendously and in a higher interest rate environment and slower economy, the dealers are getting stuck with high end vehicles that they cannot move at 9 percent rates. They want incentives from Stellantis to subsidize the sales and reduce the inventory and he has been unwilling to provide them because the company wants to retain earnings to finance the transition to EVs - this is the dispute, not that the company is going to fail.). As to where I get the numbers, they are from the companies respective SEC filings (eg 10-K for the U.S. issuers and 20-F for the foreign issuers, as excerpted by the WSJ via a service it provides for any U.S. listed security.) The focus on cash is to make it clear that even if any of these companiessuffer stupendous losses (unlikely) the cash position of the company makes it unlikely any of them could go bust anytime soon. Compare this to during the GFC where for example Ford’s liquidity consisted almost entirely of cash it borrowed (wisely - it understood it needed cash to survive the closure of the economy).

The only relevance of any of this for the consumer is that if you want a Stellantis branded vehicle, you can get a really good deal. We had a Grand Wagoneer L for a two week family road trip to to the beach with the dogs, and it was a terrificvehicle. It had the HO Hurricane 6, had a 600 mile plus cruising range, could do 90 with ease if I needed to pass, and everyone was super comfortable. Drove it 2k miles. The new motor is fabulous and I am a hemi guy. People won’t complain about losing the hemi after they drive either version of the six. It is on par with the BMW B58 in my opinion if not better, and I say that as a fan of BMW engines. Long way of saying my lack of concern about viability is because as a car guy, I can say the product is excellent and as someone who can read a financial statement, the overall position of the company is fine, and they have time to address the current issues.

But again I will leave it there as some folks just like to argue. Have a good day.
 
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I don’t want to argue. You can lose sales and still make money you are just making less money or losing money even. And unsold inventory does impact the company no question. Candidly, your having the wrong impression here is another example of financial reporters not looking at company financials. Sales can be up a great deal but if per unit profit sucks and the company is coming off low sales, that may sound better but be irrelevant. Similarly sales can be down a lot but if per unit sales are profitable and they are coming off record highs, that may not be as bad as it sounds- even your headline acknowledges that profits are down but that is not a loss. Directional numbers without any baseline or centering data can be misleading. We will know more when the 2024 year end financials are published.

Listen my point isn’t to argue everything is hunky dory at Chrysler in the U.S. Dealers don’t publicly complain about the company if it is. But some here and in the press are talking about viability and that is unfounded based on the financials. (The bulk of the news including the unsold inventory, is really that Stellantis does not want to rely on incentives to push volume. The plan is for premium pricing based on desirability of the product. Tavares cut back on incentives tremendously and in a higher interest rate environment and slower economy, the dealers are getting stuck with high end vehicles that they cannot move at 9 percent rates. They want incentives from Stellantis to subsidize the sales and reduce the inventory and he has been unwilling to provide them because the company wants to retain earnings to finance the transition to EVs - this is the dispute, not that the company is going to fail.). As to where I get the numbers, they are from the companies respective SEC filings (eg 10-K for the U.S. issuers and 20-F for the foreign issuers, as excerpted by the WSJ via a service it provides for any U.S. listed security.) The focus on cash is to make it clear that even if any of these companiessuffer stupendous losses (unlikely) the cash position of the company makes it unlikely any of them could go bust anytime soon. Compare this to during the GFC where for example Ford’s liquidity consisted almost entirely of cash it borrowed (wisely - it understood it needed cash to survive the closure of the economy).

The only relevance of any of this for the consumer is that if you want a Stellantis branded vehicle, you can get a really good deal. We had a Grand Wagoneer L for a two week family road trip to to the beach with the dogs, and it was a terrificvehicle. It had the HO Hurricane 6, had a 600 mile plus cruising range, could do 90 with ease if I needed to pass, and everyone was super comfortable. Drove it 2k miles. The new motor is fabulous and I am a hemi guy. People won’t complain about losing the hemi after they drive either version of the six. It is on par with the BMW B58 in my opinion if not better, and I say that as a fan of BMW engines. Long way of saying my lack of concern about viability is because as a car guy, I can say the product is excellent and as someone who can read a financial statement, the overall position of the company is fine, and they have time to address the current issues.

But again I will leave it there as some folks just like to argue. Have a good day.
I never argued that Stellantis was about to fail, but that they have mismanaged Chrysler. The amount of unsold inventory doesn't lie. And as you alluded to, the dealer network is in revolt at Stellantis as evidenced by the recent letter they sent to Tavares complaining about marketing strategy and resulting slow sales and unsold inventory. That doesn't happen in a well managed company.

We will apparently have to agree to disagree and leave it there.
 
I never argued that Stellantis was about to fail, but that they have mismanaged Chrysler. The amount of unsold inventory doesn't lie. And as you alluded to, the dealer network is in revolt at Stellantis as evidenced by the recent letter they sent to Tavares complaining about marketing strategy and resulting slow sales and unsold inventory. That doesn't happen in a well managed company.

We will apparently have to agree to disagree and leave it there.
I would take issue with the argument they have totally mismanaged Chrysler. Moving the brands to a better pricing model is hard and I don’t disagree with you about the dispute with the dealers, but the product itself is better than it has ever been, probably since the pre Daimler cab forward models.
 
Stellantis is just the latest in the list of corporate mismanagement of Chrysler. Daimler, Cerrubus (sp?), FCA, and now Stellantis have done the brand no favors.
Stellantis was a merger with FCA, not Chrysler, a small, but important distinction. FCA never left the picture, just became part of an even larger conglomerate, not unlike VAG. And I'd argue that FCA did a ton to improve the brand. They massively improved interior design and quality, improved styling and brought about the Hellcat engine, Pentastar and now the Hurricane I6. They started using ZF transmissions, which was another huge improvement.
 
Stellantis (previously FCA) is also using ZF transmissions now, like the ZF 8HP, which is arguably the best 8spd on the planet and considerably better than Toyota's offering.
As opposed to what? Using The ZF HP 8 is an example of my point that they should have accepted defeat a long time ago on building their own transmissions and purchase either units from a third party company or license to produce them. The ZFHP9 hasn't been quite as successful for the company as the ZFHP8 was. Even if FCA had chosen to go with Aisin for the 8-speed transmission, they still would be in a better position than what GM and Ford are today. The Aisin 8 speed as a whole is still a decent unit It just isn't quite as fast as the ZF HP 8.
 
As opposed to what? Using The ZF HP 8 is an example of my point that they should have accepted defeat a long time ago on building their own transmissions and purchase either units from a third party company or license to produce them.
I mean, they did 🤷‍♂️ Prior to the ZF 8HP, they were using the Mercedes NAG-1. How far back are we going here? They've been using the ZF 8HP for the better part of a decade now though.
The ZFHP9 hasn't been quite as successful for the company as the ZFHP8 was. Even if FCA had chosen to go with Aisin for the 8-speed transmission, they still would be in a better position than what GM and Ford are today. The Aisin 8 speed as a whole is still a decent unit It just isn't quite as fast as the ZF HP 8.
Agreed, though Toyota had some rather major issues with their 8spd (which I assume is the same Aisin unit) when it was first introduced. Member @StevieC had a horrible experience with his in his Highlander, and that wasn't unusual for the time. I'd hope they've got that sorted by now though, as it has been quite a few years.
 
I mean, they did 🤷‍♂️ Prior to the ZF 8HP, they were using the Mercedes NAG-1. How far back are we going here? They've been using the ZF 8HP for the better part of a decade now though.

Agreed, though Toyota had some rather major issues with their 8spd (which I assume is the same Aisin unit) when it was first introduced. Member @StevieC had a horrible experience with his in his Highlander, and that wasn't unusual for the time. I'd hope they've got that sorted by now though, as it has been quite a few years.
My comment was concerning later iacocca and eaton era. What I'm trying to highlight is I think a lot of Chrysler's reputation that was damaged happened especially during the '90s and one of the biggest contributors were their transmissions (along with the head gasket problems on the first generation Neon and the 2.7 L V6). The transmission problem was potentially the easiest problem to solve so long as the company was willing to make the tough choice to accept defeat on building their own stuff.

It took Chrysler nearly 10 years to get the ultra Drive to acceptable standards (Not bulletproof standards but acceptable standards). A big part of it was getting ATF + 4 developed. 10 years is way too long and even then it still wasn't exactly the best unit. Then under Daimler Management, they decided to build a six-speed off of it. It was time to throw that technology into the dumpster from whence it came and buy a proper unit since the 62 TE is quirky at best.

I remember many consumers complaining about the RE series transmissions as well. This is what I mean by they needed to accept defeat and just buy a unit. This is part of the reason why the Cherokee XJ had such a good reputation, it had an Aisin Warner transmission instead of the poorly engineered RE series.

The Mercedes W5A580 was decent unit though the gear spread could have been better if they would have put in a taller overdrive than 0.83.

From my understanding the RWD Aisin 8 speed is overall a good unit It's just not as quick shifting as the ZFHP8. I know there were some teething problems with the FWD Aisin eight speed which is what I think you're referring to concerning the Highlander. The issue is I think the ZFHP9 had more problems than it did I remember think it was a Honda that was using the transmission in the midst of a long-term test by car and driver were the transmission failed in the midst of their test. I had to drive a second generation 200 with the unit in the shifting was insanely slow between first and second gear. The one in my parents Cherokee is tolerable but not exactly confidence inspiring. Others I knew that had earlier versions of the Cherokee experienced transmission failures around 30,000 mi. It's an odd unit. Time will tell if they figured it out, for the time being kept me as skeptical.
 
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