Deposit Issues with Ford 3.5L EcoBoost in SHO

[The Critic]

http://www.bgfueltest.com/

Follow the BG Fuel Test. They have 30,000 miles+ on their Taurus SHO and they document the build-up every 5,000 miles.

So far they have not used any additives at all, so it is interesting to see how many deposits have built-up over 30,000 miles.

 

[Nick R]

When are the manufacturers going to figure out this Direct injection problem? Intake valve deposits and fuel dilution... I didn't think it was that complicated.

Here is my solution to the intake valve deposits- Have two injectors. The primary injector is the direct injection in the cylinder. Have a smaller, secondary injector in the intake port, like a traditional SMPFI engine.

Edit: Or heck, STOP PIPING PCV TO INTAKE. Put a seperate, small vacuum pump/chamber for the PCV system.

 

[Scienceman]

Seroiusly, I love Fords...but I can't beleive that as good as they are they can't fix the issue of Direct Injection.

 

[Nick R]

Sadly, seems noone can. Not Ford, not GM, not VW...How do diesels not have this problem? Do they not have PCV piping?

 

[AuthorEditor]

OT. Boy, that's lousy gas mileage at 18-20 mpg. Must be mostly city driving? I average better than that in my '95 Grand Marquis.

Isn't this the engine that will be going into the police Taurus that is supposed to replace the Crown Vic? Police departments will love this problem.

 

[The Critic]

Originally Posted By: Nick R

Here is my solution to the intake valve deposits- Have two injectors. The primary injector is the direct injection in the cylinder. Have a smaller, secondary injector in the intake port, like a traditional SMPFI engine.


Toyota already does this for the 3.5L direct-injected V6 in the Lexus IS350.

 

[Quattro Pete]

Why don't we hear about these deposit issues in other parts of the world? Is our gasoline quality partly to blame for it?

 

[J. A. Rizzo]

Maybe a PCV "catch can" or filter system would help, but then it would need to be emptied/cleaned/replaced at some variable interval that depends on many different factors. The whole idea is to reduce HC emissions, so dumping a can or replacing a filter would just increase emissions again. I think the latest motor oil formulations are intended to try to resolve or at least minimize the deposit problem chemically, e.g. reduce the deposits and keep the emissions down. I wouldn't be surprised if we saw some other system pop up that tries to solve the problem, like metallurgy or coatings for intake valves to either treat the surface and make it less sticky for PCV deposits or changes heat transfer characteristics to either burn them off or prevent them from carbonizing on the surface.

You could have a vacuum pump for PCV, but then you'd still need some kind of collection system for the gunk coming out of the crankcase.

 

[CBR.worm]

Some amount of intake valve deposits are normal and don't cause performance problems. Those pictures don't look very bad (yet) some of the VW/Audi DFI engines actually almost block one of the intake valves and do cause performance problems.


I am not sure what the difference is, it could be valve timing, fuel quality, mixture differences, driving style, etc. I don't know what else is different between the cars here and elsewhere.

Seems like if it is PCV related it would be pretty easy to fix. VW/Audi/Porsche have cyclonic seperators - I don't know what that means but it sounds more complex than our PCV valves (and yet...)

To me, the statement on the BG site that says the car has developed a hesitation over the last 5,000 miles (which will surely be cleaned up by their product) sounds like a bunch of [censored] that costs them some credibility in my mind.

 

[MrCritical]

What I don't like is the fact that they release these vehicles for production and sale to the public knowing they have a problem before they ever left R and D. And I'm talking about almost every manufacturer.

 

[sunfire]

Why didn't Ford fix the inherent problems with turbos before releasing the EcoBoost?

Products like Seafoam and Powerfoam can still be used as a workaround though.

 

[Nick R]

Originally Posted By: sunfire
Why didn't Ford fix the inherent problems with turbos before releasing the EcoBoost?

Products like Seafoam and Powerfoam can still be used as a workaround though.


This isn't a problem with turbos, this is a problem with Direct Injected engines. With fuel being injected directly into the cylinder, there is no fuel flowing over the intake valves to keep them clean of oily deposits, and other stuff. So it just builds up over time to the point where it starts degrading performance.

 

[Steve S]

Originally Posted By: MrCritical
What I don't like is the fact that they release these vehicles for production and sale to the public knowing they have a problem before they ever left R and D. And I'm talking about almost every manufacturer.
That is why people with half a brain let the others pay to work out the bugs on the new models. It is not a new problem.

 

[TLMjared]

what I wonder is this engine was also used in the ford flex (a couple years ago actually) before it was offered in the taurus, is it also having these same issues? if so why have we not heard of it yet?
I know BG has worked with Audi (i believe it was) with some sludging issues, I wonder if they might do the same for ford with this issue...

 

[mechtech2]

A forum member 'StevieC' posted about his brother who works for Ford working on a dual injection system to combat the inherent DI problems.
I wondered, "What's the point of DI, then?".

I would build a nice catch can system for my personal PCV system on any DI car. Actually, I use a catch can anyways.

A simple dump tank would not work. Where would everything go? How would it flow? Remember, the 'P' in PCV stands for POSITIVE crankcase ventilation. Not incidental luck.

 

[sunfire]

Originally Posted By: Nick R
Originally Posted By: sunfire
Why didn't Ford fix the inherent problems with turbos before releasing the EcoBoost?

Products like Seafoam and Powerfoam can still be used as a workaround though.


This isn't a problem with turbos, this is a problem with Direct Injected engines. With fuel being injected directly into the cylinder, there is no fuel flowing over the intake valves to keep them clean of oily deposits, and other stuff. So it just builds up over time to the point where it starts degrading performance.


Ya. I meant to say DI not turbo. My point is still valid and my workaround is valid.

 

[EcoBrick_Bob]

So... What do those of us that have an EcoBoost engine do to clean out the build up???

Have 11K on my Brick!

On a 533I I had back in 80's there was build-up on intake valves that absorbed the fuel, and the car shut off when off throttle.
Not an issue in sticks, as it would re-start when gas was added, but on Auto's this wouldn't happen without going into neutral and
starting the car with the key - at speed!

Solution was taking off intake, and spraying ground walnut shells onto the valves to clean them. They would burn up with no residue upon starting the car. Only issue was that the stretch bolts that held engine together, stretched, and head gaskets leaked and needed replacement due to intake being removed 4 times in 40K. Cost me about $800. to fix... BMW said NO!

Never bought another....

Hope this isn't necessary on EcoBoost engine.

EcoBrick Bob

 

[SteveSRT8]

The Ecoboost is too new to have very much data yet on this issue.

But we have seen many DI engines from others with problems.

 

[abs]

I was thinking about ADDING and inverse oiler to my ecoboost. I've posted about it in the additives section, what do you all think:

https://bobistheoilguy.com/forums/threads/inverse-oiler-to-reduce-intake-sludge-di-turbo.140518/

 

[Chris142]

Originally Posted By: Nick R
How do diesels not have this problem? Do they not have PCV piping?
The new ones may but the older ones had a road draft tube. I remember the 02 Pete I drove with a Series-60 had a draft tube.