Defending Castrol?????????????????

[jbas]

Perhaps it is the Court that err'ed, not Castrol.

If the courts of jurisdiction had made Castrol, and others, market the product as: "Faux Synthetic" or "Group III Synthetic," or similar, then the buying public would be notified that there is some sort of difference between the Group III and Group IV synthetics, and a downward price pressure would naturally develop on the Group IIIs. Everyone would have benefited, as the buying public (including many BITOGers) would have opted for the fine Group IIIs at the relatively lesser price, and others would pay up for the "better" PAOs. The Castrol lawyers must have walked away from the judgement shaking their heads at the Court's supidity and their good fortune.

 

[Dr. T]

Yes, the 'court's ruling' allowed for "HC" oils (group III) to be called synthetic just as Group IV and V (which are also dissimilar).

Only thing is, I don't think that the average Joe would know the difference. Synthetic is synthetic. Eveything is 'dummed-down' for the N.A. consumer anyway.

However, there's more to oil than just the base oil. The addative package is even more important. How do we know that Mobil 1 is not simply a cost-effective-cheapo-PAO or has a cheap addative package? In other words, just because an oil is PAO-based doesn't make it superior....

 

[Tree Hugger]

quote:

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Originally posted by VeeDubb:

quote:

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Wellllll, the problem with the idea that it's OK to redifine the meaning of "synthetic" at will, and to suit one's own agenda, is that then you've got to say that the infamous "I did not have sex with that woman" claim wasn't really dishonest afterall. I mean, if Castrol can shape-shift "synthetic" to suit its own purposes, then why can't you-know-who define the term "sex" to suit his?

Hmmmmmm, I smell fumes in here. Anyone got a match. . .

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I agree with you, but my understanding is that a third party ruled in favor of Castrol (I'm not an expert on this so I'm open to someone telling me otherwise). If true, Castrol didn't unilaterally pull it off. [/QB]

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And in the example you quoted, a third party (a judge) had just ruled that oral sex wasn't sex...

 

[radiometer]

Johnny, I really do not believe you made a mistake in starting this thread. I know it must seem disappointing to see some of the thoughtless responses. I discontinued using Castrol Syntec when I learned of its switch from PAO to Grp III mineral oil. Before that I had noticed it had taken on the smell of petroleum when I did the last several changes with it. That made me wonder. In all the discussion in this or similar threads no one has shown any reason for me to believe that Syntec is inferior in any way. Some state their opinions and that is fine. I take opinions as just that. There are several whose "higly educated" and well experienced opinions I would very highly value but I haven't seen them here on this subject. I recently decided to purchase some Syntec 10W-40. I had to go to 3 Wal-Marts and one Advance-Auto to gather up two a total of two cases of it. Wal-Mart told me they couldn't keep it on the shelves (I don't know the truth of this). I know they had very little of it. I'll find out by use and UOA how it holds up. For my part; Thanks to you for starting this thread. Here is a forum for any to offer evidence of either the inferiority or superiority of one of the oils over the other. One thing Bob taught many of us is that the additive package is more vital than the base oil itself. I still believe the base is very important but I know Bob is right about the additive package being of very great importance to the completed product.

 

[Terry]

I too was shocked years ago when this whole mess exploded and Castrol pulled off the kangaroo court synthetic definition... I am amazed that XOM did NOT fight harder on the issue.

From a purely analysis point of view I don't care what you call the stuff. If it is reasonably priced and works well then I will use it and tell others to use it based on TESTING results.

If I could blend and package cow dung ( lots of that around here) add water and get you NO wear for pennies on the dollar I would. Call it whatever you want.

Having said that I think the non syn, syns are overpriced. Wait till the Chinese start selling group III and higher oils to walmart and it won't matter. I don't see the US makers/ marketers being able to compete without falling to that cheap source of base oil. Give it a year or two. Gonna shakeup things 10x as much as hydrocracking lubes did.

Johnny you are a trouble maker !

 

[Hirev]

quote:

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How do we know that Mobil 1 is not simply a cost-effective-cheapo-PAO or has a cheap addative package? In other words, just because an oil is PAO-based doesn't make it superior

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You must not have read 3 Mad Ponchos well documented test at Paradise Garage with a SHC, Mobil 1 to 18,000 mile to ask that question. 3 Mad Ponchos is currently at the 10,000 mile mark on a test with another SHC, ASL Amsoil 5w30. It would be interesting to see how far Castrol Syntec 5w30 would go in a real world test. So far I have not seen Syntec tested past 7,500 miles in a used oil analysis report. Could there be a reason why?

 

[buster]

I agree with Bror 100% on the Castrol issue.

As far as Mobil 1 30wt not meeting the European specs, they don't have to. Mobil 1 5w30 is primarily a North American grade oil. To make it A3 isn't hard. As Tooslick always said, it's not rocket science.

Mobil does make an A3 30wt oil, it's called 0w-40.

Everyone is entitled to their own opinion but IMO, it's still hard to beat Mobil 1 for the $$.

Now Castrol in the other hand is telling people that the North American Syntec meets the same exact specs as the German Castrol. I had the girl on the phone today after reading this thread to see if anything has changed. NOPE. Still the same disorganized BS from Castrol. And we knock Amsoil....

So Castrol makes one great Synthetic, but is telling people who might need an A3 rated oil that the US and German 0w30 are the same.

If it weren't for BITOG, none of us would know this.

Mobil 1 is factory fill and Mobil has a race presence. Don't underestimate Mobil just bc you think they have some sweet deal with these auto makers. Sure they do and ANY other oil maker would die to be in Mobil's position. Mobil got the contract bc it's GREAT stuff, period. Again, what's NASCAR using? Mobil 1. I also don't think MB AMG would use an oil that wasn't up to the task.

No doubt their are many great oils out their. But the price of Castrol Syntec (US stuff) is outragous when you compare it to Mobil. Even that independent Fast and Furious Amsoil test proved Mobil 1 was a top notch oil. It beat out everything, including Torco and Shell Helix. Gotta love the anti-Mobil 1 crowd.

 

[Motorbike]

quote:

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Originally posted by buster:

Gotta love the anti-Mobil 1 crowd.

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They don't even like Mobil's dinos or synthetic blends .

GM and Saab also chooses Mobil . Chrysler too

Must be tough to be atop the motor oil mountain with someone always trying to knock you off it

 

[buster]

quote:

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Must be tough to be atop the motor oil mountain with someone always trying to knock you off it

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Thats exactly right. XOM has an advantage due to the fact that they make their own PAO/additives. Some of these other guys' do too, but chose only to deliver a Grp III product due to costs. So I tip my hat to Mobil for providing the only PAO synthetic on the shelf that has yet to be beat IMO by other so called top notch oils. One starts with an "R" I think???

 

[thedawk]

quote:

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Originally posted by buster:


Mobil 1 is factory fill and Mobil has a race presence. Don't underestimate Mobil just bc you think they have some sweet deal with these auto makers. Sure they do and ANY other oil maker would die to be in Mobil's position. Mobil got the contract bc it's GREAT stuff, period. Again, what's NASCAR using? Mobil 1. I also don't think MB AMG would use an oil that wasn't up to the task.

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Let me start off by saying that I am not anti Mobil 1, however, I do use Castrol and have for a long time now. I agree with everyone here that says Mobil 1 is a good oil and an even better bargain for the price that you can get it. But, I do not for a second think that Mobil 1 is any more ethical than Castrol or any other company out there trying to make a profit. Mobil made a contract to be the factory fill for Corvettes and whatever other exotic cars they advertise. They also made a contract to NASCAR to be "the official oil of Nascar". That does not mean Nascar is using it. I don't think the no. ten car (Valvoline sponsor) is using Mobil 1. Nor is the no. 1 car (Pennzoil sponsor). Oh, and what about that pesky no. 24 and his partner no.48 (both sponsored by Quaker State). Other oils besides Mobil certainly have "race presence" and are factory fills for certain vehicles.
So, after ranting over that now, would I use Mobil? Sure, because it is a proven oil with good used oil analysis, not because they paid Chevy to put it in the Corvette from the factory and not because they paid Nascar for "official oil" advertisement. It's all marketing and trying to lure the customer just like Castrol.

Whew!

thedawk

 

[Audi Junkie]

I use German Syntec, but recommend Mobil 1 Truck and SUV 5w40. No bias here. I am willing to put in the extra effort for GC verses grabbing a jug of Mobil 1 5w30 at the Stop-n-Go. Maybe the person who goes in for the 5w30 will see the 5w-40 and remember, who cares. I just want the best oil for the job at the right $. Sometimes that is Motorcraft, Delvac 1300S, Rotella Synth, Saab Synth, Mobil 1 5w-40 or German Syntec. Heck, I even bought a 5q of R&S Strauss 10w-40 oil ($3.99!) for my buddy's gallon-low 4-Runner!

 

[Mamala Bay]

When Castrol Syntec was the real thing before the lawsuit...How good of an oil was Syntec. If Price was equal, which oil would you had purchase...Mobil 1 or Castrol Syntec..

 

[buster]

I'm not saying M1 is the greatest oil. Their is no such thing IMO. There are many great oils out their and Mobil 1 is one of them. They could have chose the cheaper route, and followed Castrol's group III approach but they didn't.

Regarding Mobil 1 and NASCAR, this is where I obtained that info from. Take what you want from it. It's not the API shelf Mobil 1 though.

74% of NASCAR use Mobil 1

 

[kev99sl]

quote:

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Originally posted by Audi Junkie:

quote:

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they did it because it was better for their margin

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I think we all agree on that point. What we don't know is what happened to Castrol's supply-chain of basestocks. Were the prices manipulated by Mobil? Would it be quite so evil of Castrol to use G-III if Mobil screwed them unfairly? I think that would make Mobil more evil. Would it be evil of Castrol used more costly additives to supplement their G-III oils, basicly keeping the same $ margin and building a strong R&D programme?

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I reiterate what I did in an earlier thread: if you'll return with me to the thrilling days of yesteryear, you'll recall that when the "Group III revolution" first dawned, the inside industry scoop was that it offered "near-PAO performance" at a significantly lower cost. That was the entire point. The totality of the point. The benefit. It wasn't that it cost as much, it wasn't that it provided equal performance at a slightly lower cost ... know what I'm saying? Whatever has happened since then is beside the point: Castrol made the move purely, only, solely from a price point/profit margin perspective. It will do no good to look back retrospectively and claim that they made the move because of some price squeeze put on by Mobil, or because PAO production suddenly quadrupled in cost, or whatever. They saw an opportunity to increase their margin, and they took it. And that effort would not have been possible without the ability to market the oil as "synthetic" so that it would stay competitive price-wise with more expensive-to-produce PAOs. And they pulled it off, that's all. All that matters is back then, (as in, when this all actually happened), a $4 bottle of Group III Syntec simply didn't "cost" as much to make as a $4 bottle of PAO-based Mobil 1, or any other PAO-based synthetic. It's as simple as that, and whether you find that to be disingenuous or not is up to you. I personally think it was lousy, but as I've said, I don't doubt that most of the other major players are simply upset that they didn't think to do it first.

 

[Thierry_Zoller]

0w-30 SLX costs in Luxembourg (Europe) 21€ (26$!), PER LITER! I read your praise but IS this oil really worth that price?!

 

[Audi Junkie]

Mola, aren't we talking pre-BP?

 

[Ugly3]

thedawk - They also made a contract to NASCAR to be "the official oil of Nascar". That does not mean Nascar is using it. I don't think the no. ten car (Valvoline sponsor) is using Mobil 1. Nor is the no. 1 car (Pennzoil sponsor). Oh, and what about that pesky no. 24 and his partner no.48 (both sponsored by Quaker State). Other oils besides Mobil certainly have "race presence" and are factory fills for certain vehicles.

Mobil 1 says that 74% of NSCAR RUNS on Mobil 1 racing oil. Sure there are other oil companies sponsering cars, they would be in the 26% using some other oil.

Given the oil choices the NASCAR teams have this looks to me like pretty compelling data suggesting the overall quality of Mobil 1 racing oil.

 

[2004 F150 4x4]

ekpolk for President.....

 

[Alex D]

Ditto that !! All my vehicles, except the Harley, run on GC now. Even my brenad new John Deere lawn Mower tractor with B&S v-twin has it in there now.

It truly is the best easily available OTC oil. Period!

quote:

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Originally posted by Patman:

quote:

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Originally posted by pscholte:

quote:

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Originally posted by Patman:
I don't have anything to say other than I had McDonald's for dinner, and both of my cars are running German Castrol. So I'm happy, my tummy is happy and my engines are happy!

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...and how is that "dark and mysterious Vette," Pat, my friend?

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It's awesome! And it loves the 0w30! It runs smooth as can be, no piston slap, and it's getting much better gas mileage than my LT1 Firebird (3-4 MPG better, even though it's got a lot more power!)

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[pscholte]

quote:

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Originally posted by Alex D:
Ditto that !! All my vehicles, except the Harley, run on GC now. It truly is the best easily available OTC oil. Period!

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2004 F150 4x4

I must disagree...no offense to ekpolk...but after consultation with 151 little green friends...it HAS to be Alex D for President (batch M040 was especially vocal).

PS I get to be oil czar.