Death Penalty Rant

[Matt_S]

Am I the only one in this country that has any respect for the life God gave Scott Peterson? I'm convinced I am. I hope I'll be proven wrong, but here's my complaint. I'm listening to the radio this morning. I tend to flip stations often. During the course of my 45 minute commute, I heard no less than 3 DJs state something to the effect of "good, let him fry".

Now, I can have respect for someone who supports the death penalty, although I obviously don't support it myself, but what really bothers me is the cavalier, disrespectful way they're treating this. In my view, if someone's crimes are SO heinous that he has to be put to death, that represents a failure in our society. In other words, we as a society failed to produce a fellow member that had enough respect for life to prevent him from killing his wife and unborn baby and are therefore forced to protect ourselves. Given that, we should view this death sentence with great sadness, regardless of whether or not we support it. I think it shows GREAT disrespect for all life to treat this man like there's no other fate than for him to burn in he!l.

Those of you that support the death penalty, what do you think and why do you support it? Do you really think Peterson would continue to pose a danger to society if he were to be thrown in prison for the entire remainder of his life (which was the only other option)? I'm hoping someone can restore my faith in humanity at this point, because it's really lacking right now.

 

[Al]

Interesting that you are going back blaming "society" for the fact that a ******* decides to murder his wife. So the logical consequence in my mind would be for "society" to correct its mistake and put this guy out of his misery.

"Society" is made up of people who have the right to be safe. If that society-thru its law decides that death is a just punishment that if properly exercised will prevent more "failures" to murder again so be it. If the death penalty were universally used and after an appropriate appeal the guilty one put to death there would be far less crime. The money that could be saved on incarceration and appeaal after appeal could be better spent.

I will never convince you that the death penalty is good and you will never convince me that its bad.

 

[Matt_S]

I don't want to convince anyone either way, I'm just trying to understand where this cavalier attitude is coming from. It really bothers me. If we as a society don't have respect for Peterson's life, how can we expect him to have had respect for his wife and unborn child's life? I sense a great inconsistency here and like I said, it bothers me.

Also, I'm not blaming society, except that this man was a product of our society and we should be saddened by what he did and saddened by the fact that one of that society's members is deemed worthy of death. We should also be examining our collective conscience to determine what went wrong and how we can prevent a recurrence.

I don't mean to sound preachy, although I realize that's the way this comes across, I'm just PO'd that we write off his life so quickly. I'm also PO'd that the same people who are so abhorred by all the crime and murder in this country are rejoicing at another death.

 

[Matt89]

I don't think we should have a death penalty either, for the simple fact that a 0.0001% level of government incompetence (generous on my part for sure) or judicial foul play could kill an innocent man.

I'm not super religious, but if the prevailing view of the almighty is correct I figure we ought to let him deal with it. If someone is doomed to burn in h*** for eternity, what's the rush in getting them there? Doesn't everybody have the opportunity for forgiveness/salvation if they repent and accept JC? Maybe incarcerating somebody for the rest of their life would give them the chance.

Of course, I think jail should be a different experience based on whether we're trying to rehabilitate someone or just holding them in a cage until they are no longer a threat (dead). One group should get drug counseling / job skills etc and the other should get a pile of straw on a concrete floor.

 

[pasopaul]

Reminds me of an old Elton John song. Lyrics go "it's a sad sad situation and it's getting more and more absurd"

 

[Pablo]

DJ's are entertainers.

As for the death penalty. Peterson was found guilty after a LONG and FAIR trial. He KILLED his wife and his KID.

He has few rights left. He gave his rights away. He sold them for family blood. How freaking sick is that?

Not cavalier to acknowledge that he should be removed from society permanently. Maybe the French will take him?

 

[moribundman]

quote:

---

He KILLED his wife and his KID.

---

"Beyond a reasonable doubt" is not "with certainty."
Just because a jury says someone's guilty, it's not necessarily the truth.

If we put people to death who are most likely guilty, we will also put a good number of innocent people to death. Doesn't seem a fair or acceptable trade to me.

I can understand personal revenge, a vendetta. I can't understand uninvolved people wanting to put anybody to death. Sneering and cheering, drooling for bloody details and bit of excitement, they don't seem very humanistic to me, but rather like people sneaking a voyeuristic peak at the Lobster Boy.

P.S. Why did that particular case get so much public attention? Other crimes have been committed since, and they were not any less gruesome or less important, yet the focus was always on the Peterson case. Once again, it's nothing but panem et circenses.

 

[Matt_S]

Mori, you bring up an interesting idea. Once which I haven't thought of before. Should we have a different standard of guilt in death penalty cases? That is, unless the person can be shown guilty "with certainty," they cannot be put to death. Sounds like a good idea to me. I can actually accept that there are certain people that must be put to death to protect society, but I feel that those cases are EXTREMELY rare, especially given the ability of modern prisons to hold people. I'd feel a lot more comfortable if some sort of higher standard was in place.

 

[Gary Allan]

quote:

---

Those of you that support the death penalty, what do you think and why do you support it?

---

I support it only for economy. It is not a deterant.

The way I see it, capital crimes fall into three main groups.

Crimes of passion. This could be thrown in with "going postal". That is, a otherwise functional citizen, under some undue stress, loses control and commits murder. It could be anyone here. These, oddly enough, get the most publicity and rate higher punishments.

No "it's against the law and you will die" type knowledge will stop this crime from being commited. The person has lost all sense of civility.

The "take out the trash" murder. These appear to have mitigating circumstances that let someone commit 3rd degree murder ..and get out in 7 years. The world is a better place without them ..but somehow potential and even realized consequences didn't stop this murder from occuring.

The "murder for profit" type. This is the accountant that gets killed because he discovered the executive stealing money from the company ..or some "calculation killing" This is the one that should, IMHO, be an automatic death penalty. The killer gambled and lost.

Scott Peterson would fall into the "murder for profit" class. I would have liked to have had more concrete evidence against him ..but

So, I don't think that the death penalty means anything at all. The only advantage to it is the economy of not taking care of a killer for the rest of his life.

Most sanctioned punishments (justice) are legitimized "acts of revenge" for the mob. The mob demands its pound of flesh for crimes. The most frustrating event for the public to experience is when a killer takes his or her own life before being brought to justice (a murder suicide). That is, they're robbed of the symbolic stoning of the sinner.

I often find it ridiculous of how much of a circus the justice system makes over someone who has something like 15-40 counts of murder against them. They fry ..period. Why we insist on having every little dark corner explored and deciphered is beyond me.

John Doe received 29 life sentences without hope of parole.

 

[Al]

quote:

---

Originally posted by Matt_S:
Also, I'm not blaming society,

---

You are blaming society.

"If we as a society don't have respect for Peterson's life, how can we expect him to have had respect for his wife and unborn child's life?"Poor Scott Person the - the "innocent victim"

Most of us "Cavalier" Death penalty advocates have respect for human life. Anyone who takes an innocent life is a vile, evil, scum of the earth, monster. And that monster took away one persons one time in all of eternity to live. I respect life more than you could ever imagine. Thats why I chose to terminate this monster's existance.

 

[Al]

You know Gary-we hear all the time that the death penalty is not a deterrent. As a practical matter we really don't have the death penalty in this country for murder. Less than one out a thousand murders actually receives the death penalty. If a murderer were uniformly put to death after a timely Trial with one appeal. .... I am willing to bet anything that it would be a deterrent. And many many innocent lives could be spared. I have yet to see any any unbiased study that proves the death penalty isn't a deterrent.

Feel free to show me one.

[ December 14, 2004, 10:44 AM: Message edited by: Al ]

 

[Matt_S]

quote:

---

Originally posted by Al:
You are blaming society.

"If we as a society don't have respect for Peterson's life, how can we expect him to have had respect for his wife and unborn child's life?"Poor Scott Person the - the "innocent victim"

Most of us "Cavalier" Death penalty advocates have respect for human life. Anyone who takes an innocent life is a vile, evil, scum of the earth, monster. And that monster took away one persons one time in all of eternity to live. I respect life more than you could ever imagine. Thats why I chose to terminate this monster's existance.

---

Thank you. THAT is what I'm trying to wrap my brain around. Please don't think I'm trying to put Peterson in the role of a victim here, either. Far from it. Given that he's guilty, he took a risk when he decided to murder his wife and child and now he's paying for it. I don't feel sorry for him at all. I'm also not saying that all death penalty supporters are cavalier. Many have good and proper convictions about it, like you do, and I respect that, as I said in my initial post. The ones I heard on the radio this morning were a much different story, though, and I have no respect for them because of their "throw him out with the trash" attitude.

 

[427Z06]

I'll come from a different angle on this subject. We loose 40,000+ lives on our highways every year. Our society accept these deaths so that we can continue on with our lifestyle.

Murderers don't contribute to the lifestyle our society desires. Therefore, society accepts their elimination. (Almost sounds like Gary Allen logic.)

 

[andrews]

Your first mistake is listening to the diatribe of the typical morning "shock-jock" idiots. The foul mouthed and moronic dialog of these sub-par individuals, is not what one should gather world opinion with. That said, I'm a Christian. As a Christian I see nothing "ungodly" about ridding the world of this devious and murderous piece of filth. We can forgive him, yes, but he must still suffer the consequences of his actions according to the law of the land. If he's actually sorry for what he's done, God will help him out.

If not? Well, the fella with the pitch fork

will be glad to make room for him.

 

[Gary Allan]

quote:

---

If a murderer were uniformly put to death after a timely Trial with one appeal. .... I am willing to bet anything that it would be a deterrent.

---

I don't agree. Texas has a decent death penalty execution rate ...does it stop capital crime?? How about crime in general?? 20 years for j-walking (yes, I'm joking) hasn't stopped j-walking ..only put more people up for 20 years.

Take a drug dealer type killing. They're in a profession that has a life expectancy of 2 years. Death is part of it. Do they REALLY care about a death penalty? When Lizzy Borden hacked up her parents ...did she, at that very moment, consider the penalty of death?? Not likely.

Fear of punishment doesn't stop motivated people that don't fear punishment from engaging in a crime.


Let's say, for some strange and outragous reason you or I go "postal". You're postal. You aren't rational enough to consider the consequences. You're so filled with rage that you're consumed with it. Road rage would be a prime example ...just extend the modality.

One such road rage occurance, long before it ever became a term, happen here in Phila. Two vehicles collided in a hostile take over of a lane. The two cars stopped and one jumped out and shot the other one. The man with the gun was an otherwise totally law abiding citizen and a asset to his community. He worked hard and had a family in a good neighborhood and his kids were well adjusted.

After he shot the guy and killed him ..he just sat there with his head in his hands until the cops came.

Did he think of consequences? Wasn't he better off dead? His life, how ever he considered it, was OVER. 10 or 15-20 years would be more torturous to me than the death penalty.


I'm not at all against the death penalty. I just don't think, in a vast majority of the instances of murder, that it has one bit of influence on the actions of the criminal.

More executions in a timely manner would save some resources, though. This I support. We have no need to maintain these useless eaters for 20 years.


And no matter how you want to spin it ..most crime is the symptom of a delinquent society. Antisocial behavior can appear in a vacuum ...but it's more apparent that its a learned behavior.

 

[W.T.McGlynn]

Subject: Death Row Time

The average time on "Death Row"
in California is twenty years.

The anticipation is worse than the
actual event.
¬¬¬¬¬¬¬¬¬¬¬¬¬¬¬¬¬¬¬¬¬¬¬¬¬¬¬¬¬¬¬¬¬¬¬¬

 

[Matt_S]

I also read this morning that CA has executed 10 inmates since resuming captial punishment in the late 70's. 29 death row inmates have died of natural causes or suicide during that same time period. The author's comment was that Peterson stands a better chance of dying before he's ever scheduled to be executed.

 

[ruking77]

I am like Lawrence Welk, "turn on the bubble machine!

 

[Gary Allan]

quote:

---

(Almost sounds like Gary Allen logic.)

---

What do you mean by that?

 

[Win]

In law school we were taught that the four rationales of criminal punishment were rehabilitation, restraint, retribution, and deterrence.

Capital punishment obviously serves no rehabilitative purpose. It probably has some deterrent value on certain people, and no deterrent value on others.

It is the ultimate retribution society can place on a criminal and it is likewise the ultimate restraint that can be placed on a criminal.

Criminals can, and do, break out to kill again. Some murderers from a neighboring state broke out of their prison and went on a killing spree south of here.

After two trials, they were convicted of capital murder. After appeals were exhausted, they were fried.

They won't kill again.