Death Penalty Rant

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quote:

If he's actually sorry for what he's done, God will help him out. [bowdown] If not? Well, the fella with the pitch fork

That's akin to throwing the witch into the water and making her drown. If she drowns she's innocent and a simple mistake was made. Let God take care of her. If she floats, let's dunk her under till she's dead, cause she's guilty.

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They won't kill again.

That's the only argument that I will accept as reasonable and rational.

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The anticipation is worse than the
actual event.

I would expect that to be true in the case of people who feel like normal people (especially any innocent people!), which a good percentage of murderers are probably not. Odds are many of them don't value life, including their own.

Does anybody remember the movie 'Escape from New York'? Manhatten had been turned into one giant federal prison with no outside interference. Convicts would be dropped off and allowed to live out their lives in what amounted to the equivalent of Hades on Earth. Maybe no a bad idea -- not that we should use Manhatten, but I'm sure we could find a nice big rock somewhere in the ocean.
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quote:

Originally posted by Win:

After two trials, they were convicted of capital murder. After appeals were exhausted, they were fried.

They won't kill again.


I love a story that has a happpy ending
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quote:

Originally posted by moribundman:

quote:


The anticipation is worse than the
actual event.

I would expect that to be true in the case of people who feel like normal people (especially any innocent people!), which a good percentage of murderers are probably not. Odds are many of them don't value life, including their own.


I think Peterson falls in that category. Peterson is definitely wired differently than normal people. His reactions show a near complete lack of normal human emotions. I doubt he will ever show as much emotion or remorse as a normal person who got 30 days for some petty misdemeaner would show.
 
I don't care if it's a deterrent or not. Capital punishment is exactly that, punishment. The value we place on another life, depending, is paying with your own. (This is why Peterson got the death penalty and the cop who shot the guy who shot Dimebag Darrell and some other people will be okay.) Although see, if Peterson had done a partial birth abortion then he'd only be facing one murder charge plus one for practicing medicine without a license.
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Gotta like that he told his girlfriend it was his first Christmas without his wife before she was dead. Reminds me of that Monty Python line about being "not quite dead yet".
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Yeah, I'm a sicko.
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For those who do not practice law, this excerpt from Ruiz vs State, 299 Ark. 144, 772 S.W.2d 297 (Ark. 1989), might provide some insight into the strengths and/or weaknesses of capital litigation:
.....

"This capital murder case has followed a long and tortuous path. Appellants were charged with robbery, kidnapping and murder of Marvin Ritchie and Opal James. They were twice found guilty and given death sentences and in the latest trial, involving only the issue of punishment, death sentences were again imposed. Those proceedings have been reviewed three times by this court, twice by the Court of Appeals for the Eighth Circuit, and once by the United States Supreme Court. One conclusion which might well be drawn from the foregoing litigation is that appellants' second trial was error free and our affirmance of those convictions and sentences in 1981 is now effectively reinstated. The state urges us to eschew that course, however, and to address appellants' current appeal from the resentencing trial on the merits. We concur in that view.


[41] Some overview of the prior proceedings is essential to an understanding of the arguments. Appellants were serving life sentences in the Oklahoma State Prison at McAllister - Ruiz for armed robbery, Denton for murder. On June 23, 1977, they disappeared from a work crew. On the morning of the 29th they were seen near the town of Magazine in Logan County, Arkansas, driving a car with Louisiana license plates.


[42] When the marshal of Magazine, Marvin Ritchie, and two employees of the Corp of Engineers, David Small and Opal James, who were working in Logan County, were found to be missing, a search party was organized and that afternoon two of the men were found handcuffed together in the trunk of Ritchie's car. Marvin Ritchie was dead and David Small was critically wounded. Ritchie had been shot in the back of the head and Small through the chest. Small survived to provide essential testimony against the appellants at all three trials. Two days later, the body [299 Ark Page 149] [43] of Opal James was found in a remote section of Montgomery County.


[44] Appellants were tried and convicted in Logan County and sentences of death were imposed. Those convictions were appealed and the judgment was reversed upon a holding that the trial court erred in denying a motion for a change of venue and in seating a jury incapable of rendering a fair and impartial verdict. Ruiz and Denton v. State, 265 Ark. 875, 582 S.W.2d 915 (1979).


[45] Appellants were tried anew, this time in Conway County, and sentences of death were imposed. In the ensuing appeal the judgment was affirmed. Ruiz and Denton v. State, 273 Ark. 94, 617 S.W.2d 6, cert. denied, 454 U.S. 1093 (1981). State post conviction remedies were pursued and exhausted. Ruiz and Denton v. State, 275 Ark. 410, 630 S.W.2d 44 (1982), cert. denied, 459 U.S. 82 (1982).


[46] Appellants next sought habeas corpus relief in the United States District Court for the Eastern District of Arkansas. That request was denied and appellants appealed to the Court of Appeals for the Eighth Circuit, where the judgment of the District Court was reversed on the grounds that the case was governed by Grigsby v. Mabry, 758 F.2d 226 (8th Cir. 1985), holding that so-called "death-qualified" juries, being conviction prone, are unconstitutional. Ruiz v. Lockhart, 754 F.2d 254 (8th Cir. 1985). The United States Supreme Court granted certiorari and vacated the decision of the Court of Appeals in the light of Lockhart v. McCree, 476 U.S. 162, 106 S.Ct. 1758 (1986), which upheld the constitutionality of "death-qualified" juries, reversing Grigsby. See Lockhart v. Ruiz, 476 U.S. 1112, 106 S.Ct. 1964 (1986). The case was remanded for consideration of issues which had been reversed by the Court of Appeals and on November 20, 1986, that court again reversed the District Court, this time on the premise that robbery was used both as an element of the crime of capital murder and as one of the aggravating circumstances found by the jury to justify the death penalty, which the court had, in Collins v. Lockhart, 754 F.2d 258 (8th Cir.) cert. denied, 474 U.S. 1013, 106 S.Ct. 546, 88 L.Ed.2d 475 (1985), held to be an impermissible duplication, resulting in what has been referred to as "double counting." The duplication issue had been preserved by appellants, but not reached by the Court of Appeals in [299 Ark Page 150] [47] view of its reversal on the Grigsby argument. The court upheld the validity of Ruiz and Denton's convictions, but vacated the death sentences because of the use of pecuniary gain as an aggravating circumstance where robbery was an element of the underlying capital crime. *fn1 The state was given a reasonable time to either retry the issue of punishment or reduce appellants' sentences to life without parole. The state proceeded to retry the appellants without the use of pecuniary gain as an aggravating circumstance and again the jury imposed a sentence of death, resulting in the present appeal. Appellants assert nineteen errors by the trial court. We find no merit in the arguments for reversal."

....

The whole opinion is about twenty three pages.
 
quote:

I think Peterson falls in that category. Peterson is definitely wired differently than normal people. His reactions show a near complete lack of normal human emotions. I doubt he will ever show as much emotion or remorse as a normal person who got 30 days for some petty misdemeaner would show.

You know, this has been said a lot, and from looking at the same Peterson snippets over and over (unavoidable if you ever turned your tv on during the past two years), I can understand how people interpret his behaviour as strangely cold and seemingly unaffected. Yet I'm not convinced that the select few images we get to see are necessarily representative or indicative of anyhting else than of someone who keeps up an appearance. You know what they say about the guy who starts yelling, screaming, and crying about his innocence, right?

Could Peterson be a sociopath or simply a cold-blooded killer? Sure, but I don't dare to make that claim. The thing is, our perception is based on our personal opinion, which in turn is invariably based on prejudice. The little bit armchair psychology we (think) we have picked up by watching tv or taking a psychology class in college makes us hardly experts on reading an indvidual's mind. If it were that easy, an expert could tell with certainty after an interview with an accused, "He did it." From lie detector tests to circumstantial evidence, every means of finding "the truth" is flawed. We end up relying on a jury and a judge, which hopefully will come to the right conclusion. I don't believe a system that is inherently flawed, should be allowed to provide provisons for life-or-death decisions. Instead, I think we owe ourselves a justice system, which requires more than "beyond reasonable doubt" to convict anyone. "Reasonable" means different things to different people.

[ December 14, 2004, 07:31 PM: Message edited by: moribundman ]
 
And one more thing: even if someone is a sociopath or otherwise defective person, it doesn't mean he's done it. That's not proof.
 
quote:

Originally posted by Matt_S:
I don't want to convince anyone either way, I'm just trying to understand where this cavalier attitude is coming from. It really bothers me. If we as a society don't have respect for Peterson's life, how can we expect him to have had respect for his wife and unborn child's life? I sense a great inconsistency here and like I said, it bothers me.

Also, I'm not blaming society, except that this man was a product of our society and we should be saddened by what he did and saddened by the fact that one of that society's members is deemed worthy of death. We should also be examining our collective conscience to determine what went wrong and how we can prevent a recurrence.

I don't mean to sound preachy, although I realize that's the way this comes across, I'm just PO'd that we write off his life so quickly. I'm also PO'd that the same people who are so abhorred by all the crime and murder in this country are rejoicing at another death.


Holy crap. You're saying that he did this because of society??? "He's a product of society"

It's people like you that is the reason why as a society we are going down hill. I'm going to tell you something that might seem revolutionary to you, TAKE RESPONSIBILITY FOR YOUR OWN ACTIONS! Wow, ever think of that and not blame someone or society for it? Crap.

I personally can't wait til they fry that piece of garbage.
 
This discussion is just plain wierd!! Society can affect many things but I seriously doubt that society says it is okay to murder someone! I agree with take responsibilty for your own actions, if anything that is the down fall of our society. Everyone wants to blame everything under the sun except themselves!!!
 
Retrospective DNA analyses has exonerated some death row inmates of their crimes, proving the trial by jury system is fallible, though it may be the best thing we have to uphold justice. I concur with others here that advocate a higher burden of proof before a capital judgement penalty can be rendered, be it for an obvious ******* like criminal-celebrity Peterson, or some other lessor known convict.

EDIT: Wow. This BB has quite a nanny built into it. It blocked scum bag!
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quote:

Originally posted by HEV:
Retrospective DNA analyses has exonerated some death row inmates of their crimes, proving the trial by jury system is fallible,

Probably the DNA samples were bungled like in OJ's case. After OJ's acquittal DNA= foolishness for me.
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FlyNavy and Doug,
You guys are what I like to call "The Average Everyday Joe". I mean that in the most respectful way. What I'm trying to say is that you reflect good common sense values, that the majority of Americans also exhibit.... including me. Matt_S and Matt89 reflect the opposing minority opinion. Pretty easy to tell what category we fall into by just reading the posts.
 
quote:

Originally posted by HEV:
Retrospective DNA analyses has exonerated some death row inmates of their crimes,

DNA has also shown that inmates and ex cons commited other crimes when they hadn't even been suspects.

A full DNA data base of all convicted criminals will go along ways towards solvintg crimes where the perp is careless enough to leave some DNA behind.
 
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A full DNA data base of all convicted criminals will go along ways towards solvintg crimes where the perp is careless enough to leave some DNA behind.

That's without a doubt true, but don't forget DNA can be planted. Also, the collection of bimoetric data and a mandatory DNA data base for all citizens, and believe me, it is coming, will make everyone a potential criminal. There will also be severe abuse and manipulation of collected data. Nothing will change. Some perps will get off, some will get caught, some innocent people will be wrongly convicted, and some will be framed. Nothing will really change, but everything will be so much more complicated.
 
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