Dealership Chain won't do Anything if over 10yr/200k

[DuckRyder]

Ive been a service writer.

I understand the policy, especially in a rust belt state, though i feel like 10 years is a little short.

RE the parts - can't probably isn't entirely accurate, don't want to or won't is the deal, I also understand that because the vast majority is complete garbage.

 

[daves87rs]

Considering the shortage of techs here, we are lucky to get oil changes. They will try to work on the older ones though!

 

[JTK]

There's enough decent non-dealer shops in the western NY area. Why use a dealer for service?

West-Herr domestic brand dealerships have always been marginally horrible in terms of service in my experience.

 

[UncleDave]

The same dealer will happily write 84 month truck and vehicle loans.

 

[Astro14]

Several Mercedes dealerships have adopted this policy, nothing over 15 years old, including my local one. Talked about it in the BenzWorld W220 forum: https://www.benzworld.org/threads/m...cars-over-15-years-old.3111928/#post-18527035

Their experience mirrors what I said in this thread: https://bobistheoilguy.com/forums/threads/fancy-cars-with-no-gas-in-them.378737/#post-6773440

Someone of little means buys an older S class (or any older MB, really) - brings it in, gets a 4 figure repair estimate, can’t pay it, then either throws a public tantrum over the cost, and/or abandons the car. At one point Mercedes Benz of Virginia Beach had over 90 abandoned cars on their lot. They had people yell, scream, and throw things at the service writers.

They couldn’t get other work done because half their lot was filled with cars that people refused to get fixed and refused to come get. Many of them had been towed in, so, they would have had to be towed away. Owners just walked, leaving the car there. So, the dealership goes through the process to get a lien, take possession, and auction the car. That’s a 90 day, or more, process.

A difficult situation for the dealer, and they saw a huge increase in both bad outcomes over the past couple of years. So, they implemented the 15 year policy.

Further, MB really cut back on parts support for older cars, over the past two or three years. It used to be that you could get any part for any Mercedes ever built. They quietly stopped that during Covid, so, not only are repairs expensive, but repairs with genuine parts might not be possible due to corporate support. Without genuine parts for a car, the dealership can’t repair it, at least, not according to their usual protocols.

For me, and my two MBs that are past the cutoff age, Mercedes Benz of Virginia Beach will actually work on them. I had a nice chat, one on one, with the service manager. Good guy. The source of my numbers and anecdotes above. He realized that I’m not the kind of guy to walk away from my car, and I don’t represent the risk of abandonment, or bad behavior, to which they have been subjected.

If you’re looking for a simple root cause - look at the behavior of your fellow car owners. The dealers themselves are caught in the middle between dwindling factory support for older cars and customers with older cars who behave badly. Naturally, nobody on BITOG would complain about the cost of dealer service…

But, shockingly, there are some people who act badly, by out or by abandoning their car.

 

[John105]

Congrats on the longevity, I'm hoping to join the Tahoe club with a '25 or '26.

Anyway, here's my BMW story. Bought a 2007 335i coupe brand new, delivered Dec. 2006.

I've never paid for any repairs/maintenance for the most part, it was all free for 4 years. the only thing I've paid for is an alignment, interval oil changes when they had $59 specials, coolant exchanges (2). ABS failure I DIY'd.

Anyway, my annual visit to the dealer would be for a PA State Inspection, because they would charge $42, when a shop charged about $45 with $29.99 coupon. Difference? It was a BMW dealer, AND, free BMW loaner car.

This is every year since 2007.

Anyway, Dec 2020 was the last time that I was able to get a free loaner. They say now, only cars under warranty can have a loaner. Also, I have to sign a waiver that my car is geriatric, pretty crazy. To me, it's a blanket method to break things and not be responsible, on any car 5 years and older. An example, that Ford Triton V8 plug replacement, ford dealers routinely do that, if plug breaks, not responsible...

 

[KrisZ]

What I don’t understand is that people will still go to a dealership like OP did. Why reward such behavior? I understand OP went to different dealerships, but these are still likely corporate dealers and can adopt the same policy. It’s likely a matter of when not if.

In the meantime the number of independent mechanics is constantly dwindling and people wonder there are no good mechanics left.

 

[John105]

What I don’t understand is that people will still go to a dealership like OP did. Why reward such behavior? I understand OP went to different dealerships, but these are still likely corporate dealers and can adopt the same policy. It’s likely a matter of when not if.

In the meantime the number of independent mechanics is constantly dwindling and people wonder there are no good mechanics left.

For me and BMW it was the fact that many shops don't use adapters on the lift arms, and the free loaner car, for a $42 service.

On our GM SUV, we've not been to a dealer in about 6 years. But I'm actually planning on taking it there and it is over 10 years. Reason is our trusted indie now charges same as dealer.

I generally agree, dealers are to be avoided. But not if the price is the same. The difference now is warranty and parts.

 

[zzyzzx]

This probably has more to do with rust and them having more work than they can handle.

 

[John105]

This probably has more to do with rust and them having more work than they can handle.

My experience when BMW was everything free incl rotors and pads for 4 years. There was ZERO upsell, which was fascinating to me back in 2007-2010. Like they simply fixed anything and everything they saw, no need to get an OK. Zero charge. My DME got replaced.

The funniest thing is going in for a free oil change, and your car is there 3 days, while you have a brand new loaner newer than your own car. To your point--probably a 7 series rolled in out of warranty with the $10k coolant pipe repair, so it's more worthwhile to fix that, than to do warranty cars.

At the same time, why turn away a high mileage older GM product, it can have some pricey repairs like the rear evap failing, etc. I doubt they turn away an old car because it seems to be in great shape, but rather seems they have a blanket policy..

 

[Snagglefoot]

This is were the Indie Mercedes shops thrive. Keeping an old Benz running is a badge of honour.

 

[John105]

This is were the Indie Mercedes shops thrive. Keeping an old Benz running is a badge of honour.

I've personally found it's very easy to find a German indie. It's very very competitive too, and they are enthusiasts.

Example, when I wanted to get Pilot Super Sports mounted and balanced, dealer said $80/ea. I said what about Firestone $20/ea they laughed and said you want them working on your car?

Local indie--$30/wheel and they installed my own new TPMS from BavAuto (RIP they were around when I was in elementary school).

I go to pick up my car, it's in the shop, being bucket washed--that's integrity.

I've found it harder to find a trusted Japanese indie who will install my parts, in all of Phila. (if you have one please reveal them)

So I have to travel about 60 miles. Again, Lexus dealer said $6,700 of work needed. Indie said $0 of work needed. That was 7.5 years ago.

For whatever reason, indies with integrity will install customer parts. Difference is no 1 yr or 2 yr warranty, so customer can decide.

I think that shops that don't allow customer parts is not only because of the margin, but being able to charge OE and use aftermarket. But they do have to warrant the work.

It's been my personal experience that it's hard to find a domestic indie, there's no enthusiast interest, so many times no more integrity than a dealership. My .02

 

[BMWTurboDzl]

If I am being honest, I can see both sides, for part of the situation...

A few weeks back I did a front-end refresh in my Tahoe and visited West-Herr Chevrolet of Orchard Park for alignment. Truck is a 2005 with 320k miles. Alignment went well and I was pleased with the work. Dealer had a nice waiting area and I figured I'd continue to patronize the dealer with other things I need.

I stopped in today to make an alignment appointment for our 2005 Suburban, which was a Dallas/Fort Worth truck, that of which is stupid clean here in New York. 232k on the clock. I also intended upon making a state inspection appointment for my Tahoe.

I make the appointment with the service writer, then we begin making the appointment for the Suburban's alignment. He says "I have to ask my service manager something real quick". So a few minutes go by, and the service manager comes out and starts talking to me. "Unfortunately we cannot work on anything that is over 10 years old or over 200k miles." I was beyond shocked. I said "this Suburban is cleaner than all of your 2020-2021s on your lot". They kept stating that it is company policy throughout all West-Herr dealerships and that there was nothing they could do. They stated COVID parts shortages and that they can't get GM parts for a lot of older vehicles and if they break something during an alignment they can't replace it with GM and they cannot use aftermarket parts. They also said they made a mistake last time scheduling me and they honored my appointment and did the job because they made the mistake. That was cool I guess. The one service writer told me that he got his rear-chewed out by management for scheduling the appointment. That right there ain't right.

It was pointless arguing or really saying much more. They even said they won't run a vehicle over 10 years old for inspection... which I am not sure if that is possible or legal in NY.

I think it's a hilarious way to get Mr. and Mrs. John & Jane A. Gullible to think "wow our car -- the dealer won't service it next year, yes lets please talk to a salesman to start looking at the new Trax for ONLY $109 more a month than we use to pay for our loaded Yukon XL Denali back in 2013." When I said I can see both sides, I can understand a dealer or really any shop wanting to deny working on the 20 year old rotted out, strut pokin' thru, gas leaking LeSabre. But to blanket 10yr/200k for a New York State Inspection or alignment when a customer has explicitly stated the entire front end is new. Thats wild.

Went to a small two location Dealer a town over called Jim Murphy Chevrolet... Jim Murphy used to have a Pontiac franchise which everybody knew in Cheektowaga. Told them; they were shocked that West-Herr said that and agreed they're so big that they can choose whatever they want. They were happy to do the work.

For a matter of principle, I am going to research the State Inspection component, because I can't see NY allowing a registered inspection station to deny running a vehicle through inspection. Sure, you can fail it, but I do not think they are allowed to just not run one.

Still ain't keeping me out of my GMT800s.

Makes sense from their perspective. They're not going to make exceptions for cars which are 10 yrs or older but from somewhere else in the country so they don't exhibit the same amount of rot. Remember the point of dealership work is to repair the vehicle into "like new" condition. If they've had a hassle with older salt-rot cars so be it. Big dealership have deep pockets so they can be a target in our litigious society.

 

[BMWTurboDzl]

It gets better. If a dealership chain's company policy is to not service over 10yr or 200k, then they of course couldn't do the pre-delivery service to make used cars safe for the road. Also in NYS, if a dealer has to sell a vehicle it has to be inspected. So I have no clue how they're selling 10+ year old cars.

Of course I'm being smart... they would really sell a 2012 Camaro then deny the person an oil change 2-3 months later?

View attachment 200958

Sales is not the same as service.

 

[Hillbilly Deluxe]

A lot of boat dealers / service departments have moved this way. I have been told that the marina where I dry stack one of my boats doesn't want to work on boats of my vintage unless they are stored there. There's a few reasons, mainly it's the service tech issue and the techs not having experience working on anything that doesn't have a computer.

My boat that I dry stack there is a 1997 Sea Ray 230 Bowrider with a Mercruiser 7.4L engine and Bravo III outdrive. I think the engine has electronic ignition, but it does have a distributor cap, rotor, plug wires. It's the throttle body/carb/fuel injection? I don't know. I don't know much about that era of GM engines myself and I don't work on that boat's engine/drive. I have too much else to do.

I have them service it annually (oil/filter changes, winterization, inspect everything). The engine has 625 or so hours on it, runs great and has been very well maintained it's whole life. The lower end of the drive was completely rebuilt in 2000 after the previous owner had to ram it into reverse under an emergency after some entitled brat on a PWC ran across him while he was underway about 35 MPH...

Anyway, the service department tells me that they will service boats like mine as long as they are stored there, but do not take on outside work of that era. I don't understand all of that, the engine in that boat is simple. Big block GM, no computers, etc. Belts, hoses, GM alternator, GM power steering pump, GM plugs, wires, etc.

 

[Chris142]

That's bad. It's easy money for them.

Judging by the amount of broken Ford's in the place I don't think they care.

 

[ZZman]

Time to find a trusted local garage for repairs.

 

[oldgrayman]

My wife drives a 2012 CX9 . The only repair I've had done was a brake booster last year and the independent shop I brought it to happily took care of it .

 

[alarmguy]

Much has happened in the marine industry. If your boat is over ten years old they dont want or need your business and do not want to work on it or attempt repairs. Even if it looks like new and has ultra low hours. I think it's just another step in our throwaway society.
EVs are going to take this up to another level of throwaway.

 

[redhat]

There's enough decent non-dealer shops in the western NY area. Why use a dealer for service?

West-Herr domestic brand dealerships have always been marginally horrible in terms of service in my experience.

Oh I agree. I have a few reasons. I won’t visit Firestone or quick tire shops anymore since they only appear to do a “check” to skew the alignment rack and send you on your way. I called a few shops and surprisingly, not all have alignment racks. I’m not surprised though, Buffalo has tons of repair only shops — no inspection no alignments no tires etc. Few other shops have racks but have no waiting area and want you to leave the car the whole day. While, yeah of course I can do that, it isn’t as convenient. I’d rather just wait with the vehicle for an inspection or alignment. So my next thought was OK hopefully a dealer that has larger volume of vehicles in a nicer area (OP) would be bound to have “compliant” equipment and able to align it fine? I brought it up on here before and many suggested try a dealership. So that’s where I thought if Chevy of OP… if they can align a new truck the old is the same procedure.

Also scheduling, a few local shops, when calling just had an attitude of “I guess so in a few weeks”. I do understand some places are scheduled up, but have a little friendliness.

Maybe none of those reasons are the best but that was my train of thought.

What I don’t understand is that people will still go to a dealership like OP did. Why reward such behavior? I understand OP went to different dealerships, but these are still likely corporate dealers and can adopt the same policy. It’s likely a matter of when not if.

In the meantime the number of independent mechanics is constantly dwindling and people wonder there are no good mechanics left.

See post above. I have tried but it isn’t always as easy. It comes down at times to making the best choice. FWIW now this other dealer I’m going is a small town dealer not some mega-mart chain.

I won’t say there are no good mechanics or shops in Buffalo/WNY. But what I have noticed starting as far back as 2019, Buffalo area is just a place where you have to have to do a lot of stuff yourself. It is tough getting quality services done, for anything.

This probably has more to do with rust and them having more work than they can handle.

The dealer actually had said “I wish we could work on it, we’re slow and would love the business”.