Curiosity got the better of me

[deeter16317]

Just an FYI, a lot of us have found the filterminders can and do fail quite often. I believe all of the 94+ dodge trucks with Cummins have a factory installed filter minder...so there is quite a pool of test mules.

Of the four dodge trucks we've had, the filterminders failed well before 100k, and would show no restriction even with a completely plugged filter...one actually collapsed the filter into the intake tract, while reading no restriction. I brought this up on TDR and several owners indicated similar findings to mine. The filterminder on my 04.5 worked until the first filter change at 25k, it hasn't worked since (210k currently).

I don't hold too much faith in them...I would rather have a true vacuum guage I could watch move, but I just change on a schedule (mainly by watching fuel economy).

A fresh filter is cheap insurance when talking the cost of a "dusted" engine.

 

[Colt45ws]

They are easy to test. It should suck down to indicate a change needed with about the suction it would require to drink a medium viscosity shake through a straw.

 

[Nick R]

Originally Posted By: widman
The dirt is trapped in the fiber like a maize. You can't get it out without damaging the fiber. I have dozens of examples of oil analysis on my site where people have done that.


Then I should be replacing the air filter on the lawnmower ever couple mowings. I get big piles of dirt every time I knock it out.

 

[Colt45ws]

I think knocking it out should be ok as long as you dont damage it obviously. Since you are just knocking off the loose dirt and are not really forcing dirt out of the filter with air pressure.

 

[Jim Allen]

I admit to having blown out a few filters in my day and, of course, I couldn't see whether or not I did any damage. I had sense enough to not use full pressure and I blew from the outside across the media rather than through it. If I were a rich man, curiosity would force me to run some labs tests to see. AEM did a test with their filter media and noted a slight drop in efficiency when the filter was cleaned incorrectly (read abused in every way possible). That's the closest thing I've found to any test data.

Years back I found a pressure gauge that reads only 10 psi, with a big 6-inch dial and lots of graduations between. To ugly to hang permanently in the truck but I have used it in the past to check intake restriction. Ideally a 0-4 psi 2-1/6 gauge would be perfect for a relaibale air filter minder.

 

[Dually]

I have a EPC-Filterminder(10 inches of water).According to the comapany EPC a max of 20 inches of water would be for a gasoline engine.With a aftermarket filter K&N/AEM use a max of 10 for gasoline and 20 inches of water for a diesel engine.Joe

 

[widman]

I have a few dozen samples on my site of oil analysis when filters have been cleaned. It is sad. I've seen Nissan's rebuilt at 40,000 miles.
Here is one where they destroyed the engine in 3000 km

here is one being rebuild by the Nissan dealer at about 50,000 miles

 

[XS650]

Originally Posted By: Jim Allen


Years back I found a pressure gauge that reads only 10 psi, with a big 6-inch dial and lots of graduations between. To ugly to hang permanently in the truck but I have used it in the past to check intake restriction. Ideally a 0-4 psi 2-1/6 gauge would be perfect for a relaibale air filter minder.



It's in a 2.5 inch case and doesn't mount like a normal panel gauge, but the price is hard to beat for a 60 in-H2O vacuum gauge (2.2 psi, or about 5 in Hg). Ignore the picture, Amazon uses the same picture for all Ashcroft 25 series gauges. I bought a 30 in-H2O gauge that they don't carry any more, but someone must.
60 in-H2O gauge

 

[widman]

Only problem with that is you have to be watching it. You need one that locks in at the highest reading. My highest reading would probably be when I pull out of my office onto the highway where cars are going by at 60 mph. My 0 to 60 pushes the engine to about 4500 rpm 2 or 3 times a day.

 

[D Bone]

Wow, that top filter was in use way too long. You obviously live and drive in a "severe" climate. You need to inspect your filter every 6 months, and replace every 12 max.

 

[Colt45ws]

*facepalm*

 

[deeter16317]

Originally Posted By: Colt45ws
They are easy to test. It should suck down to indicate a change needed with about the suction it would require to drink a medium viscosity shake through a straw.



And how many people do you think of even "testing" a filterminder...most people I know just assume they work.

 

[widman]

Originally Posted By: D Bone
Wow, that top filter was in use way too long. You obviously live and drive in a "severe" climate. You need to inspect your filter every 6 months, and replace every 12 max.


That is the point of the gauge. and it is working from mouth tests and by fuel consumption and acceleration.

Change too often and you have less filtration. "check" too often and you are more apt to leave something loose, damage a seal or allow dirt into the seal area.

And "checking" visually the second filter, almost everyone on here would have left it on, when it was causing high restriction. One or two would have replaced it for letting the fine dust particles through or around.

 

[Jim Allen]

Originally Posted By: widman
Originally Posted By: D Bone
Wow, that top filter was in use way too long. You obviously live and drive in a "severe" climate. You need to inspect your filter every 6 months, and replace every 12 max.


That is the point of the gauge. and it is working from mouth tests and by fuel consumption and acceleration.

Change too often and you have less filtration. "check" too often and you are more apt to leave something loose, damage a seal or allow dirt into the seal area.

And "checking" visually the second filter, almost everyone on here would have left it on, when it was causing high restriction. One or two would have replaced it for letting the fine dust particles through or around.


Magnificently summed up!

 

[Seguino]

Originally Posted By: Colt45ws
They are easy to test. It should suck down to indicate a change needed with about the suction it would require to drink a medium viscosity shake through a straw.

You just saved me a lot of work. I was going to cobble up a tester with a water column and a vacuum sealer for wine bottles. Now I just have to head to Dairy Queen for a shake! Thanks!

 

[XS650]

Originally Posted By: deeter16317
Originally Posted By: Colt45ws
They are easy to test. It should suck down to indicate a change needed with about the suction it would require to drink a medium viscosity shake through a straw.



And how many people do you think of even "testing" a filterminder...most people I know just assume they work.


I must travel in more cerebral circles.

 

[Colt45ws]

Originally Posted By: Seguino
Originally Posted By: Colt45ws
They are easy to test. It should suck down to indicate a change needed with about the suction it would require to drink a medium viscosity shake through a straw.

You just saved me a lot of work. I was going to cobble up a tester with a water column and a vacuum sealer for wine bottles. Now I just have to head to Dairy Queen for a shake! Thanks!

lol, make sure you tell them its for science and you need it to be of medium viscosity.

 

[D Bone]

Originally Posted By: widman
Originally Posted By: D Bone
Wow, that top filter was in use way too long. You obviously live and drive in a "severe" climate. You need to inspect your filter every 6 months, and replace every 12 max.


That is the point of the gauge. and it is working from mouth tests and by fuel consumption and acceleration.

Change too often and you have less filtration. "check" too often and you are more apt to leave something loose, damage a seal or allow dirt into the seal area.

And "checking" visually the second filter, almost everyone on here would have left it on, when it was causing high restriction. One or two would have replaced it for letting the fine dust particles through or around.



Fair enough, but if that's the case, and a person is going to "leave something loose, damage a seal or allow dirt into the seal area", then that person really has no business changing the air filter, and would be better off having a qualified person do it for them.

 

[widman]

Originally Posted By: D Bone
Originally Posted By: widman
Originally Posted By: D Bone
Wow, that top filter was in use way too long. You obviously live and drive in a "severe" climate. You need to inspect your filter every 6 months, and replace every 12 max.


That is the point of the gauge. and it is working from mouth tests and by fuel consumption and acceleration.

Change too often and you have less filtration. "check" too often and you are more apt to leave something loose, damage a seal or allow dirt into the seal area.

And "checking" visually the second filter, almost everyone on here would have left it on, when it was causing high restriction. One or two would have replaced it for letting the fine dust particles through or around.



Fair enough, but if that's the case, and a person is going to "leave something loose, damage a seal or allow dirt into the seal area", then that person really has no business changing the air filter, and would be better off having a qualified person do it for them.



That statement seems true on the surface, but some of the seals are hard to put in, in places that require twisting and turning, some that need the hose removed. Murphy's Law takes over.

Somewhere on this filter council page it is covered in more detail.
Filter Council

 

[Samilcar]

http://filtercouncil.org/techdata/tsbs/89-3R3.html

"The efficiency of an air filter increases as it is used. As soon as the air filter is put into operation, it begins to remove harmful dust particles. As these particles accumulate throughout the filter medium, the microscopic openings in the medium become obstructed. This on-going reduction in the size of the openings helps the filter stop increasingly finer dust particles, thus resulting in a more efficient filter."

"Proper air cleaner servicing will result in maximum engine protection against the ravages of dust. Proper servicing can also save you time and money by increasing filter life and efficiency. Two of the most common servicing problems are: 1) Over-servicing - new filter elements increase in efficiency as dust builds up on the media. DON'T BE FOOLED by filter appearance, it should look dirty. By using proper filter restriction measurement tools you will use the full life of the filter at maximum efficiency. 2) Improper servicing - your engine is highly vulnerable to abrasive dust contaminants during the servicing process. The most common cause of engine damage is due to careless servicing procedures."