CR Top 10 LEAST reliable cars

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Originally Posted By: SteveSRT8
The equivalent of "never mind".

Man, you need to re-read the posts, you are way out there...

Not everyone here thinks Toyota is godlike and Chrysler is all bad.

Note that the word 'anecdotal' is not an insult!


I feel like I'm in an argument with a 3rd grader...I'm way out there? You're the one flipping out over nothing. And who said anything about Toyota?
 
If they can separate out the power train vs entertainment system reliability it would be great, otherwise, CR is probably the least reliable car review source.
 
I run a limo Co, and my perspective is scewed, of course. We look for dependable serice with minimal downtime for 400K miles.. For Drive For Hire Scenario, based on my and my competitors' experience in the metro area the following is true at the moment:

Lexus LX is the best vehicle for 500K miles of dependable service. High TCO, minimum downtime.

Lincoln Towncar is the best sedan for 400K miles average service lifespan with the best TCO.

Toyaota Avalon is very good for 300K miles, small trunk, best as a one-passenger airporter.

Denali is fine, if you aget a "lucky" one.

Chrysler minivan can run and run and run, if you get a "lucky" one. A good one will outrun Odyssey several times. Depends on the trim and year.

Chrysler 300 - forget about it, too much downtime, not expensive to fix, but too much of suspension and electrical. Brilliant when new, i.e. under 80K miles. Small trunk, but bigger than the Avalon's.

Odyssey - transmission surprises that are still there, otherwise a nice vehicle. Double the AT service frequency and it may do.

Mercedes R-Class is the best for business design wise, but falls apart too soon.

It is a shame the minivans have this idiotic stigma in our culture as they are the best for the business. Especially for the elderly folks. The easiest ingress and egress.

Lexus LS460 is a disappointment after 180-200K miles. The original Lexus was the best.

Genesis and that Horse Dressage uncle are junk in our application.

Audi A8L is superb, but unrelaible.

Mercedes S500 - unreliable.

BMW i750L - unreliable.

Mercedes E-Series Bluetecs - high TCO and too much downtime to make business sense for us.

Some owners have personal Germans in the business part-time to subsides wife's favorite car.

BMW X5 is fine, as one per fleet application.

Acura MDX is very good with family business, when they are shy to pay for a minivan.. if you double the AT service frequency.

Sienna will go for 400K, if you double the AT service frequency.

Expedition is a very positive surprise, no upscale flair though. Not for everybody.
 
Y_K, that's an awesome list. When you say "if you double the AT service frequency", do you mean the ATF change? or do you mean your transmission may only last 1/2 as long as the rest of the car?
 
Originally Posted By: PandaBear
Y_K, that's an awesome list. When you say "if you double the AT service frequency", do you mean the ATF change? or do you mean your transmission may only last 1/2 as long as the rest of the car?


I think he means change the fluid twice as often as the manual recommends...
 
Originally Posted By: grampi
Originally Posted By: SteveSRT8
Well, I was wrong. I am truly humbled. Apparently others anecdotal experiences are much more important than mine. Interesting point indeed.

Thanks for schooling me...


You're not wrong, just narrow minded....

Pot, meet the kettle.
 
Everyone has their experiences and everyone's experiences are valid - that's what we base out perceptions on and unless someone is lying about their experiences (doubtful) then it counts. Arguing over someone's experiences is pointless.

However I think it's fair to say on the subject of Chrysler that historically they have built low quality cars. Had they not, they would not have gone bankrupt twice in their history. Once in the 80s when Iacocca was begging for loans and once again in 2008.
 
Yes, the way grampi interprets. Doing this is an overkill for Sienna, but that's a good one for the business continuity and it is a necessity for Honda/Acura
 
Originally Posted By: itguy08
Everyone has their experiences and everyone's experiences are valid - that's what we base out perceptions on and unless someone is lying about their experiences (doubtful) then it counts. Arguing over someone's experiences is pointless.

However I think it's fair to say on the subject of Chrysler that historically they have built low quality cars. Had they not, they would not have gone bankrupt twice in their history. Once in the 80s when Iacocca was begging for loans and once again in 2008.


Chrysler was flush with cash until Daimler sucked them dry. I completely disagree that historically Chrysler has made bad vehicles. No worse than any other mfg. They have had their good and bad.
 
Well, I reread the cost of Ford extended warranties again more carefully on Floodford:

Again: The cost of the F-150 7 Yr. 100K basic warranty (covers the real stuff, not the frou-frou) is up about 20% in less than two years. I read Ford's 10-K, and they claim to price their warranties on experiential loss data. That is, they aren't offering cheap warranties knowing they will lose money just to sell cars.

So CR is on to something, and I don't think its just the Mytouch stuff.

As a cross check, I checked the same warranty for the Mustang. Its still stuck at $690. The 'Stang is at least as complicated and the F-150. It uses the same engines, except for the Ecoboost.

About 40% of F-150's are Ecoboost.

Soooo.....reading between the lines, it looks like ford is extrapolating that the Ecoboosts on average are going to cost an extra $300 to repair between 36K and 100K. more than they thought or, another way of looking at it is that every fifth Ecoboost is going to have a $1500 or so repair in that mileage range.
 
Originally Posted By: itguy08
Everyone has their experiences and everyone's experiences are valid - that's what we base out perceptions on and unless someone is lying about their experiences (doubtful) then it counts. Arguing over someone's experiences is pointless.

However I think it's fair to say on the subject of Chrysler that historically they have built low quality cars. Had they not, they would not have gone bankrupt twice in their history. Once in the 80s when Iacocca was begging for loans and once again in 2008.


Perception is not fact. The facts prove that Chrysler sold huge numbers of cars successfully and had many satisfied clients. Far more than unhappy ones. And so many of them that they paid the loans back!

Note that the word 'bankruptcy' should not even be used for the 08 bailouts as they were purely crony capitalism.

Read the facts and ignore the perceptual bias (as demonstrated) and the picture becomes clear. Brand bashing is ludicrous these days, it is simply not supported by the facts.
I know folks (many of them!) who have stories about virtually ANY brand name...
 
Last edited:
Originally Posted By: PandaBear
If they can separate out the power train vs entertainment system reliability it would be great, otherwise, CR is probably the least reliable car review source.


a gem of a short reply. Succinct in the extreme!
 
Originally Posted By: whip
Originally Posted By: grampi
Originally Posted By: SteveSRT8
Well, I was wrong. I am truly humbled. Apparently others anecdotal experiences are much more important than mine. Interesting point indeed.

Thanks for schooling me...


You're not wrong, just narrow minded....

Pot, meet the kettle.


I met him, and he apparently can't re-read his own posts or recall his past comments. Done doesn't even begin to describe my reaction, I am thoroughly embarrassed and have now figured out how to use the correct button to avoid future [censored]!

My thanks to the many who shared with me privately.

My apologies to all who got to watch...
 
To me car navigation systems seem obsolete when I have my iPhone for navigating. Plus the phone is cheaper ($200 versus ~3000 car/nav package), and the phone can be easily upgraded to new hardware.
 
Originally Posted By: blackman777
To me car navigation systems seem obsolete when I have my iPhone for navigating. Plus the phone is cheaper ($200 versus ~3000 car/nav package), and the phone can be easily upgraded to new hardware.


I would much rather have the nav system integrated into my vehicle than use my phone or even a stand alone GPS. Best thing I have done is add a GPS head unit to my Patriot. I LOVE it. Love it love it love it!!!!!!
 
I'd rather have a stand alone unit. It can be moved from car to car. It can be replaced much easier and cheaper. They're less restrictive. What are the advantages of having a built in unit?
 
I agree with the post above. A phone or GPS unit is 1/10th the cost and also portable. The other day I couldn't find a restaurant, so I parked the car and Walked to the place with my phone guiding me. Couldn't do that with the built-in unit.

As for Chrysler I've had both good & bad with them:

- 1985 Dodge Omni - catalytic converter rusted out in 1991 (poor)
- 1990 Shadow - ran great until head gasket blew at 180,000. Engine still kept running until 310,000 mles

- 1997 Avenger - transmission pump started leaking at 130,000. Rather than spend $3000 for repair, I continued driving until it died at 150,000
- 1988 Plymouth Caravelle - engine seals started leaking at 60,000 miles (and 26 years). Engine ate so much oil I had to add a quart almost daily. Car junked.
 
Originally Posted By: Y_K
Yes, the way grampi interprets. Doing this is an overkill for Sienna, but that's a good one for the business continuity and it is a necessity for Honda/Acura


I'm still unclear on this. Some toyota cars say no need to change ATF in normal service. Do you go by severe service and halve that?
BTW, Thanks for this very informative post (unlike some other posters)!
 
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