Conventional 20W50 For Harley Davidson

From the manual to my Sporty, HD calls for, in order of preference, 20W-50, 15W-40, or 10W-40, and they specifically call for diesel oil.
 
Yeah, my 74 incher sounded like a thrashing machine on 5W-40, the one time I tried it (T6).

Lasted one day and the 20W-50 conventional went back in. Was way quiet and stays that way 2 years at a time
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Napa Gold filters (WIX) keep that oil golden a long time
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Here's a follow up, he replaced the 20W50 synthetic Valvoline in both of his bikes with conventional 20W50 Harley branded oil, and the oil pressure on both motors are back to what he's used to seeing. He also sent in a sample of the Valvoline synthetic.

I think he's going to give 20W50 Castrol GTX Ultraclean a try in his Road King down the road. Using analysis of both the Harley conventional and then the GTX, he'll continue on with whichever gives him the best numbers.


And he's actually starting to consider a 15W40 HDEO, but he's more comfortable using 20W50. As folks say: Old Habits Die Hard.


Thank you, everyone for your advice and input!
 
Originally Posted by Dak27
Thanks everyone for the replies! Please keep them coming!

BTW, he's really sour on all things Valvoline after their 20W50 Syn gave him low oil pressure. He's worried it may have damaged his motor. He's sending in an oil sample, fingers crossed everything is ok.

BTW, I was the one who suggested Valvoline synthetic because I've read quite a few positive posts about it here and on other HD forums.

What filter was he using. FWIW Harley has a relatively low pressure system and the correct filter is very important.
 
FWIW I used Rotella 15W-40 a few winters ago to see how it would do; I would not recommend it in the summer. It made more noise than 20W-50 did after about 700 miles. I switched back to VR-1. I have used Castrol and Mobil in the past and they are decent also.
 
HERE on an oil forum, WE have people trying to go cheap and use a 10w40 in a Harley. I don't get it. I suppose you guys know more than the Engineers at HD. I'm OK with using any 20w50 oil not necessarily an HD brand. By the way Big Twin HD's have a VOLUME oil pump. Not a Hi-pressure pump. When you hear your lifters making noise, your oil pressure is probably too low. This can also happen when you use too heavy of an oil in low temps. (like a straight 50 weight in 32 degree weather) Lets hear about personal experiences using the correct oil weight that might affect engine longevity. For example, a lot of people really like Mobile 1 MC oil. I had a bad experience with it.
 
A year or two ago I purchased some Valvoline SynPower 20w50 synthetic for .05/quart. Which I had absolutely no need for. But full syn oil for .05/quart I couldn't pass up. I posted them on CL and no calls. Someone on here suggested listing them in the motorcycle section and got a call from a nice guy. Sold 12 quarts for $36.
 
I've used Mobil 1 V-Twin for a long time. Always had great results with it, but It's pricey compared to a good dino oil. I could probably buy two qts. of dino for what I pay for one qt. of Mobil. I'm thinking about going to Castrol 20w 50 next oil change.
 
Buy the syn valvoline 6 pack from Wal-Mart. Last purchase worked out to $6.00 a quart.
 
Originally Posted by Silverado12
FWIW I used Rotella 15W-40 a few winters ago to see how it would do; I would not recommend it in the summer. It made more noise than 20W-50 did after about 700 miles. I switched back to VR-1. I have used Castrol and Mobil in the past and they are decent also.

The Harley I have seen with the highest miles (big Evo in an Electraglide) got nothing but 15W-40 HDEO since 10,000 miles. It is just shy of 200,000 miles.
 
I don't know if Harley has changed their mind on what weight to use in their bikes, but my '05 manual says to use 10/40 wt when the temp is under 40f. 20/50 wt above 40f, with the use of straight 50 over 60f and straight 60 wt when the temp will be over 80f. If your motor sounds loud using 20/50 wt , moving up to straight 60 wt in summer will more then likely quiet things down. 15/40 wt oil should work fine in colder weather. I use 20/50 thru the winter without any issues down to 20f. Harley spec requirement has no meaning as their own oils don't carry anything on the bottle. Use whatever brand oil you want.,,
 
Originally Posted by Jarlaxle
Originally Posted by Silverado12
FWIW I used Rotella 15W-40 a few winters ago to see how it would do; I would not recommend it in the summer. It made more noise than 20W-50 did after about 700 miles. I switched back to VR-1. I have used Castrol and Mobil in the past and they are decent also.

The Harley I have seen with the highest miles (big Evo in an Electraglide) got nothing but 15W-40 HDEO since 10,000 miles. It is just shy of 200,000 miles.


Yeah, they'll run a long time on decent oil
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Yeah, but the topology of the big motor and Sportster are some different. My sporty was way more sensitive to oil selection and resultant noise than any of my bud's big bikes ...
 
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Originally Posted by BrocLuno
Yeah, but the topology of the big motor and Sportster are some different. My sporty was way more sensitive to oil selection and resultant noise than any of my bud's big bikes ...


Yes, agree, honestly, in any engine, even automotive, conventional oil will be more quiet. Its the molecular structure of the oil vs synthetic.
and ... there is a reason 5/40 oil is not recommended in soooo many bikes, yet people still do it thinking they are doing better for their engine buy cheap synthetic Rotella 5/40 instead of what is required which is a synthetic or conventional 10/40/,15/40 or 20/50 .
 
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HERE on an oil forum, WE have people trying to go cheap and use a 10w40 in a Harley. I don't get it. I suppose you guys know more than the Engineers at HD. I'm OK with using any 20w50 oil not necessarily an HD brand. By the way Big Twin HD's have a VOLUME oil pump. Not a Hi-pressure pump. When you hear your lifters making noise, your oil pressure is probably too low. This can also happen when you use too heavy of an oil in low temps. (like a straight 50 weight in 32 degree weather) Lets hear about personal experiences using the correct oil weight that might affect engine longevity. For example, a lot of people really like Mobile 1 MC oil. I had a bad experience with it.

I've rebuilt a lot of Harley engines over the years and had the chance to observe a lot of riders using a lot of different oils over time. Barring egregious foolishness (like the guy who ran the cheapest 10w-30 he could find or the guy who ran gear oil because it was heavier and therefore better) with one exception it is less about the oil and more about the person's riding habits and maintenance habits.

The exception first -- certain oils do not work with the cam profiles on Harleys. Think about the difference in the wear surface between a relatively low lift overhead cam and a relatively high lift cam with roller tappets. The wrong oil results in skating on the cam lobe ramps and as the valve springs weaken you start seeing bounce at the top of the lobe and the hard facing starts shattering. This causes a lot of wear and damage, far more serious than choosing 10w-40 rather than 20w-50.

It's worth noticing that there are plenty of Evo engines that went well over 200,000 miles on HDEO multigrade, I rode one that had been on Rotella since it was new, it had a little over 249,000 miles on it and other than repairing one leak it had never been touched with a wrench except to change oil and spark plugs and it ran like new.

The main sources of damage I've seen over the years in order of significance:

1) Revving the engine at cold startup. Let it warm up just a little bit first.

2) Rough treatment. If you are going to do hole shots or burnouts or wheelies at least load the drive train up a little first and have some finesse with the clutch. Taking the slack out before you apply power reduces damage greatly.

3) Oil change interval in hot weather. Harley published some guidance from the factory school when they first started recommending multi-grade oil that said every 20 degree increase in oil temperature over a certain point cut the oil life in half. I don't know if that still pertains, if the chemistry has changed, or the research indicates something different, but I can say with certainty that people who shorten the OCI in hot weather tend to get more miles out of their engines before a rebuild is required.

4) Too much oil and/or too much oil pressure. Whether it is oil that is too heavy for the climate or any of the aftermarket gimmicks that pander to "more is better" mentality, too much oil and/or too much pressure is rough on these engines. Roller bearing bottom ends just need to be wet, that is about all. I've seen bikes run for years with the oil light coming on at a low idle. There is a reason why Harley sets the relief valve pressure the way they do. And yes, if hydraulic lifters are clattering at an idle it's worth making sure they are getting the design flow (like clean the tappet oil screen on an older engine) and consider using a heavier oil under those conditions.

If you follow the manufacturer guidelines for oil type and viscosity and change it at the required interval or sooner under demanding conditions you're going to be fine. Any of today's premium name-brand oils formulated for V-Twin motors are going to work. I am careful about using automotive (passenger car) oils, the savings on the cost of the oils doesn't even come close to the cost of the damage I have seen if you choose wrong. As for HDEO, there is no reason to not use it in moderate climates if you are inclined that way, it works great up to about 80 degrees ambient.

To the OP question, I run Valvoline VR-1 (their racing oil) in the engines I have bumped up a bit, the oil is quite reasonably priced, it seems to hold up well in engines that are running hotter or under higher compression, and I just change it a little more often. Upon disassembly what I am finding is an engine that is worn as expected (tolerances all a little wide) but no scoring, even wear on pistons and cylinders, no unexpected discoloration anywhere, no mechanical damage to bearing surfaces, no shattering on cam lobes, the engine looks great, just worn out.

Everybody has their preference, anecdotal evidence abounds, and I am certainly not going to advocate one brand of synthetic 20w-50 over another. Just offering my own experience, maybe it will be helpful.
 
I agree with alot of what you posted, but not everything. First it's been confirmed some part failures like camshaft surfaces, failed due to heat treating not being performed correctly. Which is not due to oil failure. The manual I have says to use 10/40 wt oil when the temps are below 40f. Harley even sells it in their stores. My manual also recommended changing the engine oil more frequently, if the bike is being use in the winter under 40f. Due to condensation forming and possibly being mixed with the oil. That can form a ice plug that might block the flow of oil causing starvation. Another reason NOT to go out in your unheated garage and start your bike in winter, unless your going to ride it and try to get it up to operating temp. As far as changing you oil more often in summer month's, Harley's are basically designed to be run in hot weather. Harley says to do 5k mile oil changes. They know how hot their bikes run, any attempt to get you to change oil sooner than needed is just an attempt to sell you more oil. Plus the engine has a oil filter, so it will catch any particles that might plug up something. What I could never under stand is ,Harley only recommends their branded oil. That or Diesel oil, if their oil isn't available. And to change it back to their oil asap. And to ad to the mystery, their branded oil does not carry any API approvals at all. Their oil is recommended, just not certified, for a premium price I might ad. They use to say to use a oil with a SG rating, but haven't seen that in years. I myself would use Diesel in my bike if I could find in in a 20/50 wt. I wouldn't trust 15/40 wt in temps between 95-115f, even with a oil cooler. I think you would be pushing the envelope if you did.,,
 
I've rebuilt a lot of Harley engines over the years and had the chance to observe a lot of riders using a lot of different oils over time. Barring egregious foolishness (like the guy who ran the cheapest 10w-30 he could find
Objectively speaking a low or high cost 30 grade will meet and exceed your mileage expectations... Dr. Dave
could either run high cost Amsoil or low cost Mobil 1 and report similar wear metals...

Quote BITOG DrDave
My old Harley really liked 10w-30 Amsoil. These was a significant
reduction in wear metals going from 15-40 to 10-30. There were no
consumption issues. It certainly started easier. By easier I mean it
spun over much faster. The motor seemed quieter, and Harley's need all
the help they can get in that department.
 
Objectively speaking a low or high cost 30 grade will meet and exceed your mileage expectations... Dr. Dave
could either run high cost Amsoil or low cost Mobil 1 and report similar wear metals...

Quote BITOG DrDave
My old Harley really liked 10w-30 Amsoil. These was a significant
reduction in wear metals going from 15-40 to 10-30. There were no
consumption issues. It certainly started easier. By easier I mean it
spun over much faster. The motor seemed quieter, and Harley's need all
the help they can get in that department.
I don't think they make a big enough BS flag to throw at this post ?.,,,
 
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