Consumer report most reliable vehicles for 06

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quote:
Originally posted by PandaBear:

quote:
The Toyota Matrix rolls right off the same line as the Pontiac Vibe, but the Vibe has a different badge on the front, so suprise it didn't make CR list.
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I know why, a friend of mine work in NUMMI and they have two teams, one from GM making Vibe, and the other from Toyota making Corolla. Matrix is made in Canada, not the same line

What he told me is that the rules and procedure of Toyota is followed very stright, no touching of the cars mean no touching. For GM, it is looser, after they load the vibes on the train people turn on the radio and sit in there to relax, etc.

The design is the same, the manufacturing procedure is followed differently.
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Unless the rules changed recently, then your buddy is wrong. I visited NUMMI myself two years ago to tour the plant, and the Matrix as well as the Vibe both came off the same "line," at least in the final assembly section.

Maybe they're treated differently in the earlier parts, so I may be wrong.
dunno.gif


Mike
 
quote:
Originally posted by brianl703:

quote:
Originally posted by jtantare:
They are not making any asumptions about the ridgeline. The drive train, electronics, suspension and the vast majority of its components have been in production for years in the MDX and Pilot.
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The same is true for the Ford Fusion and the Mazda 6.

Yet, in another thread, you said about the Ford Fusion:

quote:
5 bucks says it will be recalled within 2 months for some catastrophic failure.
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Whatever.
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Do you have a point?
 
Just to clarify some info about the NUMMI plant - the Vibe, Corolla, and Tacoma pickups are the only vehicles made there at present:

http://www.nummi.com/vehicles.html

The Matrix is made in Canada only.

The Vibe and Corolla are built on the same line:

-


From a post by an alleged NUMMI worker who provided the above picture:

"...we run them all together. The ratio of Corollas to Vibes averages between 3-1 and 4-1. All the different options are thrown into the mix at the same time...The vehicles are different but similar enough that it can be done. BTW Tacomas are built on their own separate line in a different part of the plant.
It is actually very efficient to build that way. All the parts needed are lineside. All the vehicles are shipped with a katashiki card (manifest) which stated what options are on that vehicle."

Picture and quote came from here:

http://forums.genvibe.com/zerothread?id=19634&page=1
 
Taken from Edmunds.com

"The Vibe blends the handling of a small sedan with the practicality of a five-door hatchback. It's geared toward young buyers who want a stylish, practical vehicle but don't need or want a gas-guzzling SUV. Built in the same factory as Toyota's Matrix, the Vibe was a jointly developed vehicle that shares most major components with its Japanese cousin."

They must be rolling off the sme line somewhere, as this isn't the only source that makes this claim.
 
The difference in quality between the Corolla and Vibe must boil down to the dealer experience.
The funny thing is, the most fuel efficient vehicle sold by GM in the US is a Toyota (30/36)
rolleyes.gif

Here is an OLD map for a Toyota tour of north america. They used my make Corollas at both locations.
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http://www.toyota.co.jp/en/special/10million_toyotas/

[ November 01, 2005, 03:43 PM: Message edited by: jtantare ]
 
It might also have something to do with who buys Pontiacs.

I recall reading somewhere (about 8 years ago) that GM was implementing something (don't remember what..it may have been the oil life monitor) which would reduce maintenance on the Pontiac models first because, of all of their vehicle brands, Pontiac has the poorest owner compliance with scheduled maintenance.

It was in a trade journal like Motor magazine so I'm sure the average Pontiac owner wouldn't have read it to get mad at GM
smile.gif
 
As Brian703 points out, the JDPower Initial Quality Ratings are indeed interesting for the Matrix and Vibe.
http://jdpower.com/cc/auto/ratings/vehicles/FindJdAwards.jsp
Their site lets you compare four cars. So I put in 2003 Matrix, 2004 Matrix, 2003 Vibe, and 2004 Vibe. The 2004 Vibe leapfrogs the 2004 Matrix. Then I put in Vibe and Matrix for 2004 and 2005. Now the 2005 Vibe is back down again, below the 2005 Matrix. The ratings for the Vibe change a lot from one model year to another. I don't know what to make of that, except to comment that 2003 was the first year for the Vibe...
 
Initial Quality Ratings are virtually useless unless you can make marketing hay out of it.

Too much pride of ownership, too little experience, too much old car baggage (both +/-), etc. Memories of the sales experience, no experience with maintenance and or service departments.


It's like asking a mother if her new baby is beautiful.....
 
The "reply with quote" function isn't working, so...

Quote: "CR has the most comprehensive testing procedure and their assessment is way more scientific than others, as such, I don't see any bias in their reporting. However it is quite hard to say about cars based on individual's experience. Having said that, I won't buy electronics or cameras based on CR's advice."

I've had some experience with statistical analysis, having been a university researcher for many years, with initials behind my name. I've never had much faith in CRs procedures. There is an analysis of CR and how they obtain their automobile ratings in the Allpar website, which cuts them into little pieces. They were forced to defend their procedures and failed, IMHO. If I had to I could probably find a link, but most of you guys and ladies are more proficient at that than I am.
 
I think a better way to track vehicle reliability would be to track the parts sold for them, ie, how many alternators for a particular make and model are sold nationwide on an annual basis compared to how of many that particular make and model are currently registered.

But nobody (that I know of) does anything like that.
 
brianl703 pointed out something very serious but everyone overlooked.

Different kind of people buy different brand of cars, and take care of them differently.

Vibe vs Matrix, Prizm vs Corolla, Mazda MX6 vs Ford Probe, are good examples. The Japanese charge more and the buyer pay for it because of the reliability reputation, then take care of it better, and they last longer with less problem.

I wouldn't be surprise that the result would swap if you swap the brand but not the owners.
 
Panda Bear makes some good points. I wonder how the recommend service varies? I have heard some good things about the Vibe and wonder if it would give the additional space over my Cavalier I wish I had at times, without a major setback on gas mileage. On the other hand, really being a Toyota, does it have a crappy timing belt? The Grand Am I had nickeled and dimed me to death with coil packs and wheel bearings, but you can do a bunch of them for the price of a timing belt. Its timing chain was still going strong at 10 years and 180K when I traded it. So far the only parts I have bought for my Cavalier in almost 4 years and 65K is oil filter elements and windshield wiper blades. Well, I bought a couple packs of fuses. weird new ones, but haven't used any of them.
 
brianl703 said:

"BTW, it's been my observation that just about any given problem with any given automobile is going to be an engineering issue, not an assembly issue. (I'm exluding problems caused by abuse or incompetently performed repairs).


ditto here, and I've got 25+ years of design and manufacturing experience on 3 continents to base it on. (altho not auto specific)
 
Could you swap a Corolla front end (hood, fenders, bumper and headlights) for a Matrix or Vibe? Might make for some interesting fun.
 
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