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Cars Mechanics Hate
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HTSS_TR
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Originally Posted By: AuthorEditor
Not being a mechanic, the ones I really hate are the cars that throw codes for inexplicable reasons, even when the car is running fine, and then you have to start replacing sensors that are buried under all sorts of things that require elaborate disassembly, and then when you have it all back together it still throws the code! I'd much rather face a good ol' mechanical problem that I can see what is wrong and can see how to fix it. I think the law in NY is that you have to throw $400 at a problem at the dealer that can be documented before they'll let it pass inspection anyway. My local mechanic says it happens a lot without actually clearing the code.
I had camshaft position sensor failed on and off in my E430 without any code for few months, until it failed on busy highway and it lost all power, I had trouble steering the car to emergency lane. Only then the CEL lighted up, after replaced the camshaft position sensor the car ran fine since.
CEL on for no reason is a headache and CEL not on for certain failure(s) is also a headache too.
Not being a mechanic, the ones I really hate are the cars that throw codes for inexplicable reasons, even when the car is running fine, and then you have to start replacing sensors that are buried under all sorts of things that require elaborate disassembly, and then when you have it all back together it still throws the code! I'd much rather face a good ol' mechanical problem that I can see what is wrong and can see how to fix it. I think the law in NY is that you have to throw $400 at a problem at the dealer that can be documented before they'll let it pass inspection anyway. My local mechanic says it happens a lot without actually clearing the code.
I had camshaft position sensor failed on and off in my E430 without any code for few months, until it failed on busy highway and it lost all power, I had trouble steering the car to emergency lane. Only then the CEL lighted up, after replaced the camshaft position sensor the car ran fine since.
CEL on for no reason is a headache and CEL not on for certain failure(s) is also a headache too.
Originally Posted By: AuthorEditor
and then when you have it all back together it still throws the code!
It still throws the code because none of the sensors you replaced during your "shotgun troubleshooting" session actually had anything wrong with them.
and then when you have it all back together it still throws the code!
It still throws the code because none of the sensors you replaced during your "shotgun troubleshooting" session actually had anything wrong with them.
Originally Posted By: The Critic
Nissan Altima? Those have cam/crank sensor problems, pre-cats disintegrating which cause the engine to self-destruct, head gaskets and all sorts of small issues.
I think you're speaking about one generation only.
Try to kill a pre 2002 KA24 powered Altima... Rock solid!!!
Nissan Altima? Those have cam/crank sensor problems, pre-cats disintegrating which cause the engine to self-destruct, head gaskets and all sorts of small issues.
I think you're speaking about one generation only.
Try to kill a pre 2002 KA24 powered Altima... Rock solid!!!
Originally Posted By: The_Eric
almost any engine work on a full size or mini van...
Let's just say this - Toyota calls for the cowl and wiper assembly to be pulled on the Sienna just so the plenum can be pulled if the back 3 plugs are to be accessed or if any work requiring access to the V-bank is needed. OTOH, on the Honda Odyssey the back 3 plugs are somewhat decent to access. Our 1996 Nissan Quest is a PITA to work on I say - Nissan doesn't package their parts very logically.
I've heard on the Mopar vans, you need the van on the rack to get the to back 3 plugs.
almost any engine work on a full size or mini van...
Let's just say this - Toyota calls for the cowl and wiper assembly to be pulled on the Sienna just so the plenum can be pulled if the back 3 plugs are to be accessed or if any work requiring access to the V-bank is needed. OTOH, on the Honda Odyssey the back 3 plugs are somewhat decent to access. Our 1996 Nissan Quest is a PITA to work on I say - Nissan doesn't package their parts very logically.
I've heard on the Mopar vans, you need the van on the rack to get the to back 3 plugs.
Last edited:
Originally Posted By: nthach
Originally Posted By: The_Eric
almost any engine work on a full size or mini van...
Let's just say this - Toyota calls for the cowl and wiper assembly to be pulled on the Sienna just so the plenum can be pulled if the back 3 plugs are to be accessed or if any work requiring access to the V-bank is needed. OTOH, on the Honda Odyssey the back 3 plugs are somewhat decent to access. Our 1996 Nissan Quest is a PITA to work on I say - Nissan doesn't package their parts very logically.
I've heard on the Mopar vans, you need the van on the rack to get the to back 3 plugs.
LOL... Yeah Nissan sometimes has their heads somewhere they shouldn't be. Take the Murano... The upper intake has to come off to get the back 3 plugs... Belt changes suck on them too.
I think it may depend on the Mopar engine.. I can get to the back 3 on a 3.8 Caravan without too much trouble.
The boss says an 03 Neon radiator is a real mother to get out... I know the rad on a 95 Pontiac Grand Am (3.1) is a patience trier.
Originally Posted By: The_Eric
almost any engine work on a full size or mini van...
Let's just say this - Toyota calls for the cowl and wiper assembly to be pulled on the Sienna just so the plenum can be pulled if the back 3 plugs are to be accessed or if any work requiring access to the V-bank is needed. OTOH, on the Honda Odyssey the back 3 plugs are somewhat decent to access. Our 1996 Nissan Quest is a PITA to work on I say - Nissan doesn't package their parts very logically.
I've heard on the Mopar vans, you need the van on the rack to get the to back 3 plugs.
LOL... Yeah Nissan sometimes has their heads somewhere they shouldn't be. Take the Murano... The upper intake has to come off to get the back 3 plugs... Belt changes suck on them too.
I think it may depend on the Mopar engine.. I can get to the back 3 on a 3.8 Caravan without too much trouble.
The boss says an 03 Neon radiator is a real mother to get out... I know the rad on a 95 Pontiac Grand Am (3.1) is a patience trier.
Aren't standard labor time include the "hate" factor? Is it because with a "difficult" job, ratio of standard vs wall time is little lower than with a"gravy" job?
No shop should charge the same to change spark plugs on 2001 Maxima vs 2002 Maxima. Now, what they could do is charge the same price for 2001 and pocket the difference! An honest shop will NOT do that!
- Vikas
No shop should charge the same to change spark plugs on 2001 Maxima vs 2002 Maxima. Now, what they could do is charge the same price for 2001 and pocket the difference! An honest shop will NOT do that!
- Vikas
Originally Posted By: The_Eric
LOL... Yeah Nissan sometimes has their heads somewhere they shouldn't be. Take the Murano. The upper intake has to come off to get the back 3 plugs...
That's not uncommon. Upper intake manifold has to come off on the Mitsubishi and Hyundai variant of the 6G72 (but not the Chrysler variant. Chrysler uses a Holley F.I. system) Getting the EGR connection off can be a mf'er. Same with the Fusion/Mazda6 Duratec/MZI V6.
The W-body GM 60-degree V6 cars are easy....once you know how to access them. A lot of people remove the dogbone and rock the engine forward. I take off the alternator and reach across the back of the engine. Once you get 6, 2 and 4 are easy.
But about Nissan? 300ZX Twin Turbo. Biggest PITA ever. I would rather do a Porsche 914 from the top (which will destroy your back) than mess with all that
LOL... Yeah Nissan sometimes has their heads somewhere they shouldn't be. Take the Murano. The upper intake has to come off to get the back 3 plugs...
That's not uncommon. Upper intake manifold has to come off on the Mitsubishi and Hyundai variant of the 6G72 (but not the Chrysler variant. Chrysler uses a Holley F.I. system) Getting the EGR connection off can be a mf'er. Same with the Fusion/Mazda6 Duratec/MZI V6.
The W-body GM 60-degree V6 cars are easy....once you know how to access them. A lot of people remove the dogbone and rock the engine forward. I take off the alternator and reach across the back of the engine. Once you get 6, 2 and 4 are easy.
But about Nissan? 300ZX Twin Turbo. Biggest PITA ever. I would rather do a Porsche 914 from the top (which will destroy your back) than mess with all that
Personally, I'd consider my Jeep pretty reliable. I passed 106,700 miles yesterday. I've got all the maintenance records from both previous owners. Only major repairs it's had in its 12 year life up to this point were a radiator and cooling fan (spring 2009), plenum gasket (August 2010), and a water pump (August 2010).
Other than that, it's had no issues beyond basic maintenance, and runs great.
Other than that, it's had no issues beyond basic maintenance, and runs great.
I will only state that my Subaru (WRX) Impreza has only been in once for unscheduled maintenance over 6yrs/83,0000 miles of ownership.
However scheduled maintenance is more involved with Subaru vs the modern recommendations. (60k spark plug changes, 30k for brake, coolant, diff/transmission oils) I would think this work would make the car more favorable to mechanics.
However scheduled maintenance is more involved with Subaru vs the modern recommendations. (60k spark plug changes, 30k for brake, coolant, diff/transmission oils) I would think this work would make the car more favorable to mechanics.
Originally Posted By: JOD
When I took my Eurovan into the local independent guy, he mentioned that every time one of those things pulled up, all of his mechanics were suddenly at lunch. Surprising, since it was 9:00 AM....
I feel your pain. My '89 VW Fox had the exact same effect on every shop I pulled up to EXCEPT for the Euro specialty shop I finally found. Those guys just grinned as boat payments flashed before their eyes. At two different shops the manager each time literally ran out of the bay waving his hands before I had even come to a stop.
The guy my family always takes their cars to refuses to touch RVs but I hear that's pretty common.
When I took my Eurovan into the local independent guy, he mentioned that every time one of those things pulled up, all of his mechanics were suddenly at lunch. Surprising, since it was 9:00 AM....
I feel your pain. My '89 VW Fox had the exact same effect on every shop I pulled up to EXCEPT for the Euro specialty shop I finally found. Those guys just grinned as boat payments flashed before their eyes. At two different shops the manager each time literally ran out of the bay waving his hands before I had even come to a stop.
The guy my family always takes their cars to refuses to touch RVs but I hear that's pretty common.
Originally Posted By: rjundi
I will only state that my Subaru (WRX) Impreza has only been in once for unscheduled maintenance over 6yrs/83,0000 miles of ownership.
However scheduled maintenance is more involved with Subaru vs the modern recommendations. (60k spark plug changes, 30k for brake, coolant, diff/transmission oils) I would think this work would make the car more favorable to mechanics.
30k for brake, coolant, and transmission fluids on this one as well. 120k for plugs though, which is one plus for me.
-Spyder
I will only state that my Subaru (WRX) Impreza has only been in once for unscheduled maintenance over 6yrs/83,0000 miles of ownership.
However scheduled maintenance is more involved with Subaru vs the modern recommendations. (60k spark plug changes, 30k for brake, coolant, diff/transmission oils) I would think this work would make the car more favorable to mechanics.
30k for brake, coolant, and transmission fluids on this one as well. 120k for plugs though, which is one plus for me.
-Spyder
HTSS_TR
Thread starter
Originally Posted By: defektes
more pro japanese garbage, I have had american cars just as reliable as the few toyotas i have had.
It's probably true and the general public thinks the same, that why used Honda Accord, Civic and Toyota Camry, Corolla retain very high resale value compared with other subcompact cars.
more pro japanese garbage, I have had american cars just as reliable as the few toyotas i have had.
It's probably true and the general public thinks the same, that why used Honda Accord, Civic and Toyota Camry, Corolla retain very high resale value compared with other subcompact cars.
Originally Posted By: Vikas
Aren't standard labor time include the "hate" factor? Is it because with a "difficult" job, ratio of standard vs wall time is little lower than with a"gravy" job?
No shop should charge the same to change spark plugs on 2001 Maxima vs 2002 Maxima. Now, what they could do is charge the same price for 2001 and pocket the difference! An honest shop will NOT do that!
- Vikas
Thankfully at our shop, we don't play the book labor game. We are paid hourly (actually more like salary) so as to encourage us to not rush through our work. Boss says we have enough stress in doing the job right - we don't need more worrying about making time on the job...
Aren't standard labor time include the "hate" factor? Is it because with a "difficult" job, ratio of standard vs wall time is little lower than with a"gravy" job?
No shop should charge the same to change spark plugs on 2001 Maxima vs 2002 Maxima. Now, what they could do is charge the same price for 2001 and pocket the difference! An honest shop will NOT do that!
- Vikas
Thankfully at our shop, we don't play the book labor game. We are paid hourly (actually more like salary) so as to encourage us to not rush through our work. Boss says we have enough stress in doing the job right - we don't need more worrying about making time on the job...
Originally Posted By: HTSS_TR
Originally Posted By: defektes
more pro japanese garbage, I have had american cars just as reliable as the few toyotas i have had.
It's probably true and the general public thinks the same, that why used Honda Accord, Civic and Toyota Camry, Corolla retain very high resale value compared with other subcompact cars.
They are here. When used car shopping in May when I bought this one, the difference in price between the Civics and Corollas, versus equivalents from the big three U.S., worked out, fairly consistently, to 2 model years. That price difference is also reflected in blue book values.
All of these companies, and their products, have evolved over the last 10 years, though, for better or worse. Only time will tell how well the new generation from each retain value.
-Spyder
Originally Posted By: defektes
more pro japanese garbage, I have had american cars just as reliable as the few toyotas i have had.
It's probably true and the general public thinks the same, that why used Honda Accord, Civic and Toyota Camry, Corolla retain very high resale value compared with other subcompact cars.
They are here. When used car shopping in May when I bought this one, the difference in price between the Civics and Corollas, versus equivalents from the big three U.S., worked out, fairly consistently, to 2 model years. That price difference is also reflected in blue book values.
All of these companies, and their products, have evolved over the last 10 years, though, for better or worse. Only time will tell how well the new generation from each retain value.
-Spyder
Originally Posted By: The_Eric
I think it may depend on the Mopar engine.. I can get to the back 3 on a 3.8 Caravan without too much trouble.
I think the 3.0 Mitsu V6 is the black sheep of Mopar motors.
I think it may depend on the Mopar engine.. I can get to the back 3 on a 3.8 Caravan without too much trouble.
I think the 3.0 Mitsu V6 is the black sheep of Mopar motors.
Originally Posted By: nthach
Originally Posted By: The_Eric
I think it may depend on the Mopar engine.. I can get to the back 3 on a 3.8 Caravan without too much trouble.
I think the 3.0 Mitsu V6 is the black sheep of Mopar motors.
You may well be right...
Originally Posted By: The_Eric
I think it may depend on the Mopar engine.. I can get to the back 3 on a 3.8 Caravan without too much trouble.
I think the 3.0 Mitsu V6 is the black sheep of Mopar motors.
You may well be right...
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