cons of changing oil too often?

JHZR2 · Oct 5, 2004

Can someone please explain the cons (besides $$$ and wastefulness) of changing the oil too often, like if one was to change the oil every 3 months, without accruing near 3000 miles on it?

I have read some posts hinting that this can be bad, maybe the additives need to be thermally activated, and the oil performs significantly better after this has happened quite a bit?

Any info would be most appreciated.

Thanks,

JMH

crossbow · Oct 5, 2004

If your not using an oil change valve like a
http://www.fumotovalve.com/

its quite possible you can end up stripping the oil pan threads.

JohnnyO · Oct 5, 2004

It puts more money in the Arabs' pockets.

Go with a blend or a full syn and change it every 6 months.

JHZR2 · Oct 5, 2004

that fumoto valve is pretty neat... Too bad my bmw's oil pan has cooling fins, otherwise Id have one of those on there in a second.

I like my magnetic drain plug in my truck, which is really the vehicle in issue. But, Ill do my research and if magnetic plugs don't do much, Ill probably end up putting one of these on it.

JohnnyO: Im all for keeping my money in my pocket and not giving a dime to the rich arabs (they're not helping the disadvantaged folks over there, so why should I care?)

but I'm curious from more of an oil chemistry, tribology standpoint.

Thanks,

JMH

haley10 · Oct 5, 2004

I believe this topic was discussed back in March if you search. I think I looked at that time and SAE Technical Paper 2003-01-3119 that explains is unfortunately not available for free.

C4Dave · Oct 5, 2004

Dry startup after an oil change can cause increased wear. There was a thread a while ago about how lead levels tend to stabilize after a few thousands miles. That being the case, less wear may occur with fewer oil changes.

haley10 · Oct 5, 2004

quote:

Originally posted by C4Dave:
Dry startup after an oil change can cause increased wear. There was a thread a while ago about how lead levels tend to stabilize after a few thousands miles. That being the case, less wear may occur with fewer oil changes.

I hear the dry start-up theories, but I can't get it through my head.

My oil change takes about 10 minutes give or take that the engine is shut-down.

There is still lube on the internals. It seems less abusive than the everyday morning cold start.

haley10 · Oct 5, 2004

quote:

Originally posted by JHZR2:
maybe I should just go to redline 10w-30 that has a good diesel rating, and then not worry. the oil chemistry will protect metal at dry startup, the synthetic and additive package will allow 1yr drains with the driving I do.

JMH

That is fine if you have proven it by a few uoa's and gotten the go ahead by someone qualified in this analysis. You can't really be sure about how long you can run any Syn without real world analysis, imho.

Currently my drain intervals seem to be affected by filtration issues and other factors, not just oil quality.

BlazerLT · Oct 5, 2004

Changing dino oil too often can poison your cat.

The phosphors being driven off within 200miles of the change every change will poison the cat in some cases.

Ray H · Oct 5, 2004

I guess, depending on one's predispositions, a person can think himself into any conclusion.

Probably just a matter of time on this thread until someone presents, with a straight face no less, the notion that all those rusting hulks sitting in salvage yards got there because their owners changed the motor oil too often...

) I'll take my chances with stripped threads and "additive inactivation" (yeah, right...) every 3,000 miles and the rest of you on the other side of this topic can take your chances with additive depletion, and acid, varnish, & sludge buildup. (Will that actually happen? Who knows, but I don't intend to find out - nor do I intend to routinely spend $20.00 on UOAs just so I can save $5.39 on "premature" oil and filter changes.)

garyb80 · Oct 6, 2004

Is it possible that the new oil, which starts off as alkaline to offset the acids produced during normal use, is slightly corrosive and gradually becomes less corrosive as the acids neutralize the base additives bringing the PH closer to seven?

TC · Oct 6, 2004

As far as I've read, motor oil is like beer. Unlike wine, beer is best when it rolls off the bottling line, and it's all downhill from there. Once motor oil is poured into an engine, it's downhill from there. Changing oil every day you drive your car would be the ultimate engine care (ignoring filter/oil plug thread wear). But the economic and environmental costs VASTLY outweigh changing oil more often than 3,000 miles -- no "SL" oils are spent before that time except in rare circumstances.

"Changing dino oil too often can poison your cat. The phosphorous being driven off within 200 miles of the change every change will poison the cat in some cases."
Say what? Per the Valvoline spec sheet, their All Climate oil comes with 0.09% (900 ppm) phosphorus. Per the Valv-AC UOAs below, one found 878 ppm phos at 2,400 mi, and the other found 738 ppm phos at 3,500 mi. Essentially no phosphorus depletion in the first sample, and only modest depletion in the second.
http://theoildrop.server101.com/ubb/ultimatebb.php?ubb=get_topic;f=3;t=001929#000000
http://theoildrop.server101.com/ubb/ultimatebb.php?ubb=get_topic;f=3;t=001137#000000

Gary Allan · Oct 6, 2004

A reasonable explanation for the increased wear metals during the early part of the OCI is residuals from the old oil. Stuff that managed to avoid the filter and precipitate out. If repeated 1k OCI had been done before a 3k or 5k OCI ..I doubt the first 1k of the 5k would have higher metals.

Now I'm not going to spend the $100 to prove this theory ...but

haley10 · Oct 6, 2004

quote:

Originally posted by garyb80:
Is it possible that the new oil, which starts off as alkaline to offset the acids produced during normal use, is slightly corrosive and gradually becomes less corrosive as the acids neutralize the base additives bringing the PH closer to seven?

I sure wish that SAE paper was readily available, but yeah I think that may well be closer to the truth in general.

May be just like everything we see with M1 and high iron and Redline chemistry is not all actual "wear."

And yes, what Gary just said. Well, stated.

Ironhorseman · Oct 6, 2004

Hey guys!

Very interesting web site you have here!
One of the main functions of my job is to set the maintenance schedules for the equipment in my plant based on oil analysis.
In my opinion, garyb80 hit the nail right on the head.
The alkaline additives can chemically (very slightly though) etch bearing surfaces and cylinder walls when the oil is new. Engine oils tend to mellow as the base number comes down with use.

ToyotaNSaturn · Oct 6, 2004

What about the first startup after the oil change? In most cases, the oil filter won't be full as it would normally be, even if we try to fill it ourselves, thus causing inordinate startup wear for the first start post oil change???

JHZR2 · Oct 6, 2004

quote:

Originally posted by Gary Allan:
A reasonable explanation for the increased wear metals during the early part of the OCI is residuals from the old oil. Stuff that managed to avoid the filter and precipitate out. If repeated 1k OCI had been done before a 3k or 5k OCI ..I doubt the first 1k of the 5k would have higher metals.

Now I'm not going to spend the $100 to prove this theory ...but

Thats what I was thinking...

JMH

TallPaul · Oct 6, 2004

I prefill my filter and the post oil change startup is like any other start. Oil pressure comes up just as quick. Non issue for me. But some vehicles are difficult if not impossible to prefill the filter because of the location, inaccessibility would make it a oily spill mess.

Drew99GT · Oct 6, 2004

quote:

Originally posted by haley10:

quote:

Originally posted by C4Dave:
Dry startup after an oil change can cause increased wear. There was a thread a while ago about how lead levels tend to stabilize after a few thousands miles. That being the case, less wear may occur with fewer oil changes.

Click to expand...

I hear the dry start-up theories, but I can't get it through my head.

My oil change takes about 10 minutes give or take that the engine is shut-down.

There is still lube on the internals. It seems less abusive than the everyday morning cold start.

That's my take on it. All the motors I service exhibit more start-up noise after sitting outside all night in cold weather, then starting up after an oil change. Although, on my Dad's Blazer, it does take about 5-7 seconds to register oil pressure on the guage after an oil change, because of the remote mounted filter.

Grossomotto · Oct 6, 2004

quote:

Can someone please explain the cons of changing the oil too often

I know it's been discussed before. Take a 5000 miles oil change. In many cases, it's been shown that wear numbers are higher in the first half of the change than the second half.

If your oil can go 5000 miles, then run it that long. Changing it at 3000 miles may just be adding more wear to your engine.

cons of changing oil too often?

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