cons of changing oil too often?

Pennzoil motor oil
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maybe I should just go to redline 10w30 that has a good diesel rating, and then not worry. the oil chemistry will protect metal at dry startup, the synthetic and additive package will allow 1yr drains with the driving I do.

JMH
 
quote:
Originally posted by Ironhorseman:
Hey guys!

Very interesting web site you have here!

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Correct . It sure is interesting at times .
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Welcome to the forum
cheers.gif
 
quote:
Originally posted by ToyotaNSaturn:
What about the first startup after the oil change? In most cases, the oil filter won't be full as it would normally be, even if we try to fill it ourselves, thus causing inordinate startup wear for the first start post oil change???
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Depends on engine design and actual wear on the lower end but your right , I've sure heard em knock for along time after change .

In fact , thats but one of reasons I use synthetic in my Mothers 4.6 with only 50k miles . The less times I have to listen to the knock for 5-10 seconds the better .

It's lived a life of 5-25 hits on that starter switch per day since 1998 and it has taken it's toll on the motors lower end .

EDIT:
I can say this , Ford designed a very good starter motor for those engines cause it's been a trooper LOL
 
Gary Allen - A reasonable explanation for the increased wear metals during the early part of the OCI is residuals from the old oil. Stuff that managed to avoid the filter and precipitate out. If repeated 1k OCI had been done before a 3k or 5k OCI ..I doubt the first 1k of the 5k would have higher metals.

Everyone keeps talking about the first few thousand miles. Forget that, what is going on from 9,000 to 18,000 miles when the wear metals increase very little?
 
No issues changing often other than balancing wasting the time/money. Get an oil analysis to see how your engine is doing at 3000 miles. If you don't see fuel dilution, coolant or dirt contamination, and good TBN then feel comfortable going farther. Keep the car in good tune, keep the pcv system clear.
 
Gary Allen - Here are the wear numbers for Amsoil from the Paradise Garage Study. Keep in mind that before starting the Amsoil portion of the study the engine was run 3,000 on Amsoil to "clean out" the old Mobil 1.

The values shown are Miles, Iron, and Copper

1,000 9 31

2,000 11 58

3,000 10 63

4,000 12 69

5,000 12 65

6,000 13 65

7,000 15 69

8,000 16 64

9,000 17 69

10,000 16 60

11,000 17 66
 
Okay ..try this on for size and see how it fits
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0-1000 ...some of the preciptated material is "resuspended" by NEW and ROBUST OIL.

1000-3000 - holds it's own in suspending MOST of the particulate matter.

3000+ ..is routinely LOSING material in precipitation ..some stays in suspension. That is, these wear metals are no longer in "circulation" and aren't "wear causing" or "wear indicating" elements ..they are "trapped" somewhere in varnish ..sludge..pan deposits ..etc.

New oil ...stuff that's been withdrawn from "deposits".

Work for you????
 
Here are the wear numbers from the Mobil 1 portion of the Paradise Garage Study.

Values are Miles, Iron, and Copper

1,000, 10, 58

2,000, 12, 75

3,000, 14, 81

4,000, 19, 99

5,000, 23, 102

6,000, 26, 105

7,000, 27, 101

8,000, 35, 111

9,000, 38, 124

10,000, 36, 110

11,000, 42, 127

12,000, 41, 124

Changed Oil Filter

13,000, 33, 106

14,000, 37, 110

15,000, 36, 105

16,000, 36, 108

17,000, 48, 114

18,000, 47, 102
 
Gary Allen - Okay ..try this on for size and see how it fits

Nope, does not fit. The oil before the test was started was run only 3,000 miles then the test was started. It should have cleaned up and suspended the vast majority of particulate and they would have been drained with the oil.

The problem I have is with the last part of each test. At 5,000 miles the Mobil 1 Copper is 102, it goes up and down some from 5,000 miles to 18,000 miles but ends up at 102. Assuming there is wear going on from 5,000 to 18,000 miles, where is the particulate going? It sure isn't being suspended in the oil.
 
Ugly, to name a few, Cu can be trapped in the filter,attached to internal components,consumed in combustion.

There are many variables that affect elemental values and the levels are not easily tracked individually, the analysis has to be taken in total and interpreted properly.

I haven't the time to read this whole thread so I am just looking at your comments above this post.
 
quote:
where is the particulate going? It sure isn't being suspended in the oil.
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Well then, where do you think it goes? Terry entered the combustion angle (which didn't occur to me). One has to reason that it is precipitating out in the form of being depositted somewhere inside the engine.

quote:
Nope, does not fit. The oil before the test was started was run only 3,000 miles
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So? You have an inside track on "when" oil starts providing ejecta in the form of some type of sludge/precipitant formation? I would imagine that some could start quite soon, depending on the engine/oil combo

Otherwise I'll start changing my oil @ 6000 miles and sell it to you for the finest protection that can be had. You won't have to change the filter ..since there's no more wear you have to trap in your engine for the rest of your ownership. At this stage the oil is the perfect stuff to keep you wear free ...don't believe me? Just look at the numbers.

(yes, I'm covering my face in shame here)
 
Gary Allen - So? You have an inside track on "when" oil starts providing ejecta in the form of some type of sludge/precipitant formation?

Nope, I was using this info: 1000-3000 - holds it's own in suspending MOST of the particulate matter.

I understand what everyone is saying, and it makes sense that there is wear continuing to go on all the time. What is difficult for me is where the particulate is going. Using Copper as an example, it makes no sense to me that when copper gets to 120 it stops suspending in the oil and hides in the engine, gets collected by the filter, or gets burned off. Other used oil analysis report Copper much higher than 120. Combine that with the Mobil 1 going to 102 Copper and leveling off and then Amsoil going to 65 Copper and leveling off in the same engine with the same filter.

I remain confused but hopeful.
 
quote:
1000-3000 - holds it's own in suspending MOST of the particulate matter.
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Yeah, sure ..but we don't know if it still isn't losing "other" particles all the while. Suppose the oil is just like the filter? 50% of some particles stay in full suspension the entire OCI ...75% stay in suspension for 25% of the time...100% stay in suspension for exactly ZERO miles
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We don't "know" that ..but the perponderence of the evidence suggests that particles DO preciptate out somewhere inside the engine ...and are resuspended with fresh oil. This doesn't mean that some new particles aren't being cast off at the same time.

I would find it really really hard to believe that the mere filling of a filter could possibly cause such a radical upramp in wear from ONE START UP. Nor could I see that new oil could cause wear.

When I get flush again ...I will actually go through a few 1000 mile OCIs and see what the third one yields in metals compared to the first to end the debate on this.
 
Gary Allen - When I get flush again ...I will actually go through a few 1000 mile OCIs and see what the third one yields in metals compared to the first to end the debate on this.

Try this one on for size. Run a normal OCI and have a used oil analysis done on it. Run one 100 mile to 500 mile OCI and have a used oil analysis done on it. If the postulate that the early wear indications are from residual particulate the short OCI should have a very high wear indication. You would not even have to lose the oil on the short OCI, just put it back in the engine. Send me a PM and I will pay the the extra used oil analysis, the results should be more than interesting.

Maybe someone on the board can come up with a better method to determine the level of carrover being reported in the first part of a run of new oil.
 
quote:
ToyotaNSaturn Said:

What about the first startup after the oil change? In most cases, the oil filter won't be full as it would normally be, even if we try to fill it ourselves, thus causing inordinate startup wear for the first start post oil change???
Click to expand...
I should think that depends on how well u fill it. I use a PF-35 filter on my SBC, and it took a full litre of oil.... the hard part is waiting for the filter material to actually absorb the oil, and allow penetration to the other side of the filter. I don't remember exactly how long it took, but I do know I was able to have a "coffee" (read beer) break to let it settle.
 
I'm not a fan of too frequentoil changes. As to the definition of "too", I haven't got one.

What level of filtration do the oil companies use ?
Am I introducing stuff with the oil that takes a while to filter out ?
While I've got the filter off, and the filler cap open, how much dust am I introducing to the internals ?

Probably all insignificant worries, but once it's boxed up and running, all air that gets into the sump has been filtered.
 
Well it's wasteful for one. A waste of resources, money, time and you have a better chance of stripping the threads on the drainplug as well.
 
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