Oil pros and cons

[Mau]

I use Pennzoil Platinum in our Acura RDX and Honda Prelude. Will be using Pennzoil Conventional in the accord once my old stock of Castrol High Mileage finishes.

I love PP! It made the RDX's motor sound quite different over M1, and it's also a lot cheaper then M1 here in Canada. PP also slowed down the oil burning in my prelude (h22 motor is known for it) over Amsoil ASL and GC (in my observations...scientifically I can be wrong I don't know)

Oh and I also use Wix filters on all the cars.

 

[demarpaint]

Originally Posted By: Johnny
What brand/type of electric pre-luber do you have? Any pics of the install?


I don't have pictures, problem is it sits on the left fender well, under a coolant recovery system and windshield washer fluid tank, which is jammed into a van engine bay. It is called a pre-luber, distributed by Engine Lubrication Systems, the pump is probably 20 years old. It came with a control module which activated the pump every time the ignition key was turned to the on position. I did my own wiring to a toggle switch which I flip on and watch the oil pressure build then start the engine.

I have a picture scanned from an actual brochure but can't post it on the site here, technical difficulties or I'm a little slow today. I'd be happy to email it to you if you want to PM me your email address I'll send it later on.

 

[ARCOgraphite]

Originally Posted By: Johnny
Originally Posted By: ARCOgraphite
The Honda or toyota brand 0w-20 should slaughter either oil you mention due to antiscuff agents that activate at much lower temps. I see this as a major benefit vs. additisation chemsitry current PP and M1 utilise.


I highly doubt it, but if you have proof of this I will be most interested.
The proof will come from UOA and teardowns. It makes sense to ME that any EP antiscuff that is active at 40degC lower temps SHOULD should show lower wear. Toyota and honda havent gone to this extreme formulation just for the "fun" of it - It think this special OEM oil formulation speaks volumes to the under additisation of current GF4 product.

 

[Bill in Utah]

Originally Posted By: VicL

Bill,
I've had at least one other person who strongly endorsed the MC syn blend oil to me. I actually use it as my changeover oil (factory fill - MC to 10k miles - Mobil 1). I thought I had read someplace on this board that that the additive pack wasn't that great on it.

From all the comments, I think I'll just continue M1 on one vehicle and try PP on the other for about a year and see if I notice any kind of difference.

Vic


Hi,

Your engines will NOT show any difference on whether you run PP, M1 or MC. The ONLY difference will be paying TWICE for something in the end does not matter.

Don't get caught up on what type/additive pack a oil is. Get caught up on how it performs.

Millions of Hondas go hundreds of thousands of miles on ANY OIL. A SINGLE digit percent of them run syn oil.

MotorCraft oil is a EXCELLENT oil. That is without question.

Again, I'll stand by my statement that your engine will be protected just as well, get the same MPG and last just as long with any of the oils discussed here.

But hey, its your money and whatever you want to do. You asked for pros/cons.

I think spending twice as much for something that does not matter is a con...

Take care, Bill

 

[d00df00d]

Originally Posted By: Bill in Utah
Millions of Hondas go hundreds of thousands of miles on ANY OIL. A SINGLE digit percent of them run syn oil.

Where did you read/hear this?

Has anyone done the statistical analysis to determine if there is a significant difference in how long they last on dino vs. syn?

 

[Bill in Utah]

Originally Posted By: d00df00d
Originally Posted By: Bill in Utah
Millions of Hondas go hundreds of thousands of miles on ANY OIL. A SINGLE digit percent of them run syn oil.

Where did you read/hear this?

Has anyone done the statistical analysis to determine if there is a significant difference in how long they last on dino vs. syn?


Less than 10 percent of Honda's run a syn oil. It's prob well less than that.

Hondas go hundreds of thousands of miles all the time.

I can count on one hand (with a few fingers cut off) the Honda owners I personally know or have asked (co-workers, Neighbors, strangers(yes I strike up conversation to find out how they like their car), etc) who run syn oil.

Most of them use whatever the lube place puts in. Whether that is the dealership, Wal-mart lube, Juffy Lube or one of the same.

Face it, most people DON'T change their own oil. Most people just drive the car. For many miles and the cars last with no issues for a long time.

You REALLY think that you have to run a syn oil to make a few hundred thousand miles on a Honda?

While it would be nice to take a couple of dozen Honda's (or your favorite brand) and do tests using syn vs conventional oils and in the end come up with a number, the FACT is cars (esp Hondas) are going the distance with NO problems.

And the large majority of them are using bulk products.

Right off the bat the average BITOG vehicle is going to be ahead of the average owner since we follow or better the recommend OCI and take care of our vehicles.

Take care, Bill

 

[d00df00d]

I understand what you said. I was asking where you got it from. Again, what is your source?

 

[Bill in Utah]

Originally Posted By: d00df00d
I understand what you said. I was asking where you got it from. Again, what is your source?


Nevermind.

All Hondas require syn.

Better safe then sorry. All those fools out there will soon be sorry that they did not change their own oil.

All those Hondas out there that have already put on hundreds of thousands of miles were just lucky.

Are you SERIOUS?

 

[Gary Allan]

Originally Posted By: Ben99GT
I can't wait to tear down an engine run on PP, for me that will be 100x more telling than any back to back UOA based on wear metals, which IMO is terrible way to judge oils.



No, it's a poor way to determine wear. It's just fine for telling you how the oil withstood the service. The only thing you (more or less) determine (best we can) in terms of wear metals is when something abnormal occurs in trends.

 

[Gary Allan]

Originally Posted By: d00df00d
I understand what you said. I was asking where you got it from. Again, what is your source?


Ask Doug Hillary. It was a revelation for me. He went through a pretty detailed history of his experience in fleets (his own and those he maintained). It broke down to the basic truth that synthetic oil, in a vacuum, doesn't produce any significant impact on engine life. It reduces down time.

It's a fundamental view ..and, in the confines of OEM spec's/recommendations/assumed-implied sensible services ..somewhat immutable.

Mile for mile in like service ..without some exceptional circumstance(s) ..a dino spec'd engine using synthetic oil ..maintained by the OEM spec ..will produce no significant difference in wear/life.

 

[d00df00d]

Originally Posted By: Bill in Utah
Are you SERIOUS?

I'm not trying to argue against you here. What you are saying sounds very plausible. You were quoting "percentages" so I thought you might have had actual numbers. I was hoping that some study had been done that might be informative. If not, that's cool. No need for sarcasm.

 

[CATERHAM]

Originally Posted By: ARCOgraphite
Originally Posted By: Johnny
Originally Posted By: ARCOgraphite
The Honda or toyota brand 0w-20 should slaughter either oil you mention due to antiscuff agents that activate at much lower temps. I see this as a major benefit vs. additisation chemsitry current PP and M1 utilise.


I highly doubt it, but if you have proof of this I will be most interested.
The proof will come from UOA and teardowns. It makes sense to ME that any EP antiscuff that is active at 40degC lower temps SHOULD should show lower wear. Toyota and honda havent gone to this extreme formulation just for the "fun" of it - It think this special OEM oil formulation speaks volumes to the under additisation of current GF4 product.


I agree. And you haven't even mentioned their precedent setting 200 plus VI's. Toyota (Nippon oil) and Honda (Idemitsu) have definitely raised the lubrication bar, at least as far as 20wt oils are concerned.

 

[m37charlie]

http://www.peninsulaco-op.com/upload/docs/2 Dmo SL.pdf

If the viscosities of the 0W40 are correct (57.8@40C.; 15.4@100C.), the VI is 283!!!

Charlie

 

[CATERHAM]

Don't seem to be able to open the link?

 

[ARCOgraphite]

Originally Posted By: m37charlie
http://www.peninsulaco-op.com/upload/docs/2 Dmo SL.pdf

If the viscosities of the 0W40 are correct (57.8@40C.; 15.4@100C.), the VI is 283!!!

Charlie
Its just PAO, so its wrong, probably a typo, should be 87.5cSt. They say the oil has 14 % sulfated ash which better be wrong too!

 

[PT1]

I would save the $1 and get the one that is less expensive. I use nothing but synthetic oils in all my vehicles. My boat gets dino. But I only buy oil on sale so I don't really care what the brand is as I buy by price.

 

[Leo]

Originally Posted By: ARCOgraphite
The Honda or toyota brand 0w-20 should slaughter either oil you mention due to antiscuff agents that activate at much lower temps. I see this as a major benefit vs. additisation chemsitry current PP and M1 utilise.


Do you have any information about this?

 

[ottotheclown]

RE.Gary Allen: does that fact that there is no real gain in syn vs dino, make Consumer Report back in the late 90 seem right???From what I can remember that is what they found to be the case in the NY taxi test. Thank you Gary for that thread..

 

[mechanicx]

I've always used conventional. I now buy synthetic if I can get it at the same price or lower than the conventional.

I don't think synthetic will increase engine life/decrease wear if it is ran at a longer interval than a conventional. But at similar OCIs, I tend to think people who do cold starting/short trips in cold climates probably are getting a smidgen (technical term,right?) less of engine wear with synthetics. Maybe in the opposite spectrum of hard driving in hot temperatures synthetics might decrease engine wear some.

I don't have any proof of that, but I don't believe the proof really exists. Who's taking apart engines ran over 10+ years with 10's of thousands of cold starts and short trips? Most tests are on fleets that run almost continuously and that doesn't tell you much.

The truth is even if you ran a conventional with sensible OCI, other parts of the car and the motor's accessories and gasket will probably be giving out before the engine is truely worn out.

I don't think synthetic can generally go twice as long OCI as conventional and I don't think synthetics are worth nearly twice as much. Some synthetics like maybe Rotella TS probably can go twice as long as dino but I don't think you are going to get it for less than twice the price. But kind of like Demarpaint said, I can tell a quiet a difference in cold running with PP vs. say Quaker State Conventional or Pennzoil Conventional.

 

[carock]

I have done thousands of engine tear downs for aircooled VW/Porsche. For these special engines I can easily say that when synthetics first came out in the 70's and 80's they clearly improved life of many components. The brands typically used were Redline, Amsoil, and Mobil 1. I never saw the oil burning and coke deposits in the synthetic engines and the bearing wear was markedly improved. In racing applications, it is pretty obvious that synthetics decrease bearing wear and ring wear. The other advantage is that some of the synthetics (Redline) conduct heat better than conventional oils. How much of this applies to the engines you guys use in your own cars is a question I can't answer, but there ARE applications where synthetics provide significantly better engine wear than conventional oils.