Concern about Valvoline DOT 3 & 4 Brake Fluid

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ford46guy

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I use this product on 4 vehicles, and honestly it does its job quite well. However, one vehicle had not one but TWO proportioning valves leak about 2 years after the flush. I don't want to blame the fluid, and the second valve was from a donor (they are impossible to buy new). When I took apart the first valve, I couldn't help but notice tiny pits and a bad sealing area on the O-ring sealing seat. BTW the vehicle is a 95 Lincoln conti.

Now, I'm going to be changing an ABS unit too on this vehicle(I believe it is an electronic issue - unrelated to fluid), and I decided to check the MSDS on this product, and I noticed a very scary ingredient - Sodium Hydroxide. I don't know if all brake fluids have this additive, but when I read that I cringed because I know from chemistry it is the most hygroscopic compound known to man (water isn't friendly to metal). I checked many other brake products and none of them list it in the MSDS (unless they omit it).

I also recall that it isn't too friendly to some metals, so I did some research:
http://www.roymech.co.uk/Useful_Tables/Corrosion/Corr_metals_1.html
http://www.engineeringtoolbox.com/metal-corrosion-resistance-d_491.html

Hopefully there is no bronze in that valve!

Again, I'm not blaming the fluid, works great on the other cars, but two failures kinda makes you think. I would think they would put that in to buffer acids in the system? I think they make great products but I'm really having second thoughts about using it in an older car.

http://msds.ashland.com/msds-ext/materialSearch.do
Select: Material Number
search for: 601457


POLYETHYLENE GLYCOL MONOMETHYL ETHER
9004-74-4
>=20- TRIETHYLENE GLYCOL MONOMETHYL ETHER
112-35-6
>=20- TRIETHYLENE GLYCOL MONOBUTYL ETHER
143-22-6
>=15- TETRAETHYLENE GLYCOL
112-60-7
>=5- DIETHYLENE GLYCOL
111-46-6
>=1.5- TRIETHYLENE GLYCOL
112-27-6
>=1.5- SODIUM HYDROXIDE
1310-73-2
>=1-span>
DIISOPROPANOLAMINE
110-97-4
>=1-<1.5%
 
I have used Valvoline brake fluid for decades in every vehicle and motorcycle I have owned. Never a leak or even failure. But I would simply change brands if you have lost confidence. No big deal.
 
Last edited:
Sodium hydroxide is a very strong base and has a lot of uses. I wouldn't panic -- are you saying you don't trust Valvoline's chemists?
 
Originally Posted By: JethroBodine
I have used Valvoline brake fluid for decades in every vehicle and motorcycle I have owned. Never a leak or even failure. But I would simply change brands if you have lost confidence. No big deal.


Me too, and I find it very hard to believe the fluid would do it. I'm just wondering why they would use caustic soda as an additive.

Could be a manufacturing defect on the valve.
 
Originally Posted By: dparm
Sodium hydroxide is a very strong base and has a lot of uses. I wouldn't panic -- are you saying you don't trust Valvoline's chemists?


I don't know, I don't want to blame the fluid, Valvoline, etc. I'm just questioning an additive that is not normally found in the fluid, and that along with a possible metallurgy issue in that valve had a bad reaction. If an expert says it is ok, then my situation is a fluke. I've read on many Ford forums that these valves leak from factory fills. Not common, but it happens. Honestly, I will probably use the product again, but I just want to hear other opinions.

Also, the original fill was in the valve for like 14-15 years before its first flush, who knows about the donor. The damage may have been long done. If I didn't see that ingredient I wouldn't have made this post.
 
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Two idential parts failing at about the same age, in the same way, points strongly toward a design flaw or manufacturing defect, not a problem with the fluid.
 
Originally Posted By: 84zmyfavorite
I want to study and become a Chemist. Plumbing Sucks.


Seriously, I hope you do.

We need more grass-roots, gearhead type lubrication engineers.
 
Originally Posted By: BubbaFL
Two idential parts failing at about the same age, in the same way, points strongly toward a design flaw or manufacturing defect, not a problem with the fluid.


And a good reason to have fluid changeout every few years. The lines on the car were pretty corroded(kinda damp) before the fluid was swapped, likely wicking up moisture and causing corrosion. This is almost like blaming Maxlife for ruining an engine that never had an oil change. That is why I stated I'm not blaming the fluid, but merely questioning the additive which seemed out of place.
 
Originally Posted By: ford46guy
Originally Posted By: JethroBodine
I have used Valvoline brake fluid for decades in every vehicle and motorcycle I have owned. Never a leak or even failure. But I would simply change brands if you have lost confidence. No big deal.


Me too, and I find it very hard to believe the fluid would do it. I'm just wondering why they would use caustic soda as an additive.

Could be a manufacturing defect on the valve.


What you are forgetting here are three items:

1. that brake fluids are hygroscopic and they need a water soluble acid scavenger (a base chemical) such as Na hydroxide

2. the amount of base chemical used is low

3. brake fluids are a safety item and need to be changed out every two to three years for daily drivers or every three races or less for racing

I don't see any correlation between your mechanical part failures and the brake fluid.
 
Last edited:
Originally Posted By: ford46guy
Originally Posted By: JethroBodine
I have used Valvoline brake fluid for decades in every vehicle and motorcycle I have owned. Never a leak or even failure. But I would simply change brands if you have lost confidence. No big deal.


Me too, and I find it very hard to believe the fluid would do it. I'm just wondering why they would use caustic soda as an additive.

Could be a manufacturing defect on the valve.


They(Valvoline) may have used the NaOH @ 1N, to adjust the pH prior to testing and listed it as an ingredient/additive. IDK, I'm just adding my .02cents!
 
Last edited:
Originally Posted By: ford46guy


http://msds.ashland.com/msds-ext/materialSearch.do
Select: Material Number
search for: 601457


POLYETHYLENE GLYCOL MONOMETHYL ETHER
9004-74-4
>=20- TRIETHYLENE GLYCOL MONOMETHYL ETHER
112-35-6
>=20- TRIETHYLENE GLYCOL MONOBUTYL ETHER
143-22-6
>=15- TETRAETHYLENE GLYCOL
112-60-7
>=5- DIETHYLENE GLYCOL
111-46-6
>=1.5- TRIETHYLENE GLYCOL
112-27-6
>=1.5- SODIUM HYDROXIDE
1310-73-2
>=1-span>
DIISOPROPANOLAMINE
110-97-4
>=1-div>


I am not sure why you are singling out the sodium, the diisopropanoalamine is an aminic antioxidant.

I was hoping by now that everyone would realize an MSDSs don't tell the complete story or give one the complete formulatioon.
 
So, is there any truth to this Stop Tech article that advises not to use DOT4 in an application that was originally designed with DOT3 installed:

"Systems designed for a particular type of fluid (especially prior to the wide distribution and use of DOT 4 fluids) should continue to be filled with that fluid. For example, in a car that was delivered with DOT 3 fluid, the internal components of the system (seals, brake hoses, and fittings for example) were specifically designed and tested for compatibility with the chemical composition of DOT 3 fluid. Because the DOT 4 grade fluid typically contains a different chemical composition, compatibility of system components may be an issue. "

http://www.stoptech.com/technical-support/technical-white-papers/brake-fluid
 
I think it is a good cautionary message.

This particular author may have some knowledge of failures resulting from the higher dot fluids being used in classic cars requiring DOT 3, just a theory.

Many brake fluids are now rated DOT 3 and 4, so I would say in modern cars after say 1988, it may not be an issue.
 
Originally Posted By: MolaKule
Many brake fluids are now rated DOT 3 and 4, so I would say in modern cars after say 1988, it may not be an issue.

It's interesting to note that my G's manual specifies DOT 3, yet the dealership's Genuine Nissan Brake Fluid is DOT 4.
 
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