Compare 2003 Ferrari 575 Maranello and 2000 550 Maranello

[AEHaas]

My neighbor and I have have Maranellos. He owns the 550 but has the new SuperAmerica on order. He always runs what the book says. His last oil change was with 9,100 miles on the car. It was 9 or 10 months ago. Last week I sampled the oil with 1,800 miles on this oil.

These cars are nearly exactly the same but for a slightly bored out engine in the newer 575 model. His has 475 BHP and mine has 515. His drive to work is 10 - 15 minutes and mine is 15 - 20 minutes and we drive about the same way, spirited. My car has 6,300 miles on it. I run the 20 wt oil while he has always run the Shell Helix Ultra 5W-40, the factory recommended oil.

One has said that since I get good numbers with the 20 wt oil that I should get better numbers on the 40 wt oil. You be the judge:

__________New _______Ferrari 550_______575
______0W-20 Mobil 1 ___With 1,800 Mi __With 4,100 Mi on the oil
................................................................................................................
Iron__________ Chromium _____ Nickel ________ Aluminum ______3___________8__________9
lead __________ Copper ________ Tin ___________ Silver ________ Titanium ______ Silicon ________4___________6__________8
Boron ________247_________40_________178
Sodium _______15__________8__________15
Potassium ____ Molybdenum __ 164_________18_________86
Phosphorus __1375________ 1203________1243
Zinc ________ 1328________1191________1169
Calcium _____ 3456________1669________2742
Barium ______ Magnesium ____53_________935_________111
Antimony _____ Vanadium _____ Fuel %Vol _____0__________3.0__________1.0
Abs Oxid ______?__________na__________28
Abs Nitr _______?__________11__________4
Wtr %vol ______0_________ Vis CS 100C ___9.0________11.0 _________8.3
SAE Grade ____20_________30 __________20
Gly test ______NEG_______NEG _________NEG
TBN _________9.87_______not done_____not done


I tested my oil using this company, www.youroil.net
Go to this page and download this Excel file to see other peoples results:
http://members.rennlist.com/oil/

He just went to Orlando to purchase an Enzo. It calls for Shell Helix Ultra Racing 10W-60 oil. But my neighbor thinks even he will use a thinner oil for around town. I am guessing the 5W-40 Ultra, probably a good choice.

aehaas

 

[427Z06]

Do those engines have nikasil or alusil on the cylinder walls.

 

[AEHaas]

I have parts of the 550 and 575 service manuals totaling one whole manual. In the 550 service manual, engine section B, it states the Al cylinder liners are surface treated with nickel and silicon (Nikasil).

aehaas

I did some more reading, the 575 has thinner, steel liners for better cooling. It does not say if these are surface treated or not.

[ April 30, 2005, 09:33 AM: Message edited by: AEHaas ]

 

[427Z06]

quote:

---

Originally posted by AEHaas:
I did some more reading, the 575 has thinner, steel liners for better cooling. It does not say if these are surface treated or not.

---

Good, BMW had some problems with Nikasil over the years.

I brought it up because I wondering where the nickel was coming from.

 

[G-MAN]

Your neighbor has 3% fuel dilution, which shows a lot of short trip driving with the oil never reaching operating temp. That alone will give him worse wear numbers than you are getting.

 

[edhackett]

Nobody noticed the 3% fuel dilution the 550 was dealing with? How would this car have done on a 20 weight diluted to a 10 weight?

Ed

 

[G-MAN]

quote:

---

Originally posted by edhackett:
Nobody noticed the 3% fuel dilution the 550 was dealing with? How would this car have done on a 20 weight diluted to a 10 weight?

Ed

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It didn't dilute the 40 to a 30 so what makes you think it would dilute the 20 to a 10?

 

[edhackett]

Sure it did. Look at the report.

SAE 30 CS at 100 C 11.0

Three percent is enough to drop an oil one grade exclusive of any shearing.

Ed

 

[G-MAN]

quote:

---

Originally posted by edhackett:
Sure it did. Look at the report.

SAE 30 CS at 100 C 11.0

Three percent is enough to drop an oil one grade exclusive of any shearing.

Ed

---

Whoops, sorry. I thought I did look at the report, but you are right.

 

[AEHaas]

A lot is going on. First, my own car with only 3,000 miles on the oil had 3.5 percent fuel dilution:

__________New __________Ferrari_______
______0W-20 Mobil 1 ___With 3,000 Mi __With 4,000 Mi on the oil
................................................................................................................
Iron__________ Chromium _____ Nickel ________ Aluminum ______3__________10___________9
lead __________ Copper ________ Tin ___________ Silver ________ Titanium ______ Silicon ________4___________10__________8
Boron ________247_________220_________178
Sodium _______15__________15__________15
Potassium ____ Molybdenum __ 164_________141_________86
Phosphorus __1375________ 1353________1243
Zinc ________ 1328________1313________1169
Calcium _____ 3456________3143________2742
Barium ______ Magnesium ____53_________154_________111
Antimony _____ Vanadium _____ Fuel %Vol _____0__________3.5__________1.0
Abs Oxid ______?__________48__________28
Abs Nitr _______?__________13__________4
Wtr %vol ______0_________ Vis CS 100C ___9.0________8.1 _________8.3
SAE Grade ____20_________20 __________20
Gly test ______NEG_______NEG _________NEG
TBN _________9.87_______not done_____not done

2 weeks before taking the 4,000 mile sample I had a 3 hour highway trip and did a few drag strip days. The fuel burned off and the viscosity went back up. But still it only thinned a little with the 3.5 dilution.

The 0W-20 Red Line will go in the Maybach. It only has 1,200 miles on the OEM oil and I will wait just a little longer to put it in there.

I have a problem. I am out of my SL 0W-20 Mobil 1 now and I am not sure what to use next???? If I was to drive on the AutoBahn at 140 MPH, or If I was to be on the track next week with this new fill of 0W-20 - SL rated oil I would see what my pressures and temperatures ran. I have the luxury of being able to accurately monitor these things. Then I can make an informed decision as to whether I need a thicker oil or not. This oil might just be OK in both situations. Only testing will tell.

More interest: My neighbor's Enzo, that will be here tomorrow, supposedly has the Helix Ultra Racing 10W-60 in the engine but he wants to change it and I will recommend the 5W-40 Helix Ultra. Maybe a sample just before the drain and after a thousand or so miles would be interesting.

Just so much work to do with oil.

aehaas

 

[G-MAN]

quote:

---

Originally posted by AEHaas:
More interest: My neighbor's Enzo, that will be here tomorrow, supposedly has the Helix Ultra Racing 10W-60 in the engine but he wants to change it and I will recommend the 5W-40 Helix Ultra. Maybe a sample just before the drain and after a thousand or so miles would be interesting.

---

Why does he not want to use the 10w60 Helix that Ferrari recommends?

 

[buster]

Ali, if your going to stick with 20wt oils, your options are limited. In a Ferrari, RL 5w-20 hands down. I'd use a 5w-30 minimum if it were my car.

 

[AEHaas]

I will see what the RL does in the Maybach. I suppose I could go with the 0W-30 Mobil 1.

The 10W-60 Helix Ultra has several problems. It is not readily available and costs something like $75 per quart. It is a racing oil. I assume it has no detergents and should be changed often. The owner is not planning on racing the car, just using it as he uses his Maranello, short trips to and from work mostly.

aehaas

 

[G-MAN]

quote:

---

Originally posted by AEHaas:
The 10W-60 Helix Ultra has several problems. It is not readily available and costs something like $75 per quart. It is a racing oil. I assume it has no detergents and should be changed often.

---

I would think it would be just as readily available as the Helix 5w40, since that's generally only sold at Ferrari dealers.

I'm pretty sure the 10w60 is a fully formulated SL rated oil.

 

[ex_MGB]

It would seem a lot of buyers in Europe can/will use the cars to their full potential.

Full potential as in Michael Schumacher in a Maranello trying to overtake a Porsche GT3 in the Alps?

 

[buster]

quote:

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$75 per quart

---

What a scam...

I guess Ferrari isn't charging enough for their cars so they too need to make some money on service and oil? That is a JOKE!

 

[pscholte]

quote:

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Originally posted by buster:

quote:

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$75 per quart

---

What a scam...

I guess Ferrari isn't charging enough for their cars so they too need to make some money on service and oil? That is a JOKE!

---

Buster,

I think this stuff is pretty closely derived from the research outcomes of the on-scene Shell lab working real-time with Ferrari at the F1 tracks. It IS expensive...now is it suitable for street-driven vehicles?...that, I suspect, is another story.

 

[Geoff]

I agree the 0w-20 appears to work better for your usage patterns. 15-20 min is not long, and with the generous oil capacity the benefits of cold flow outweigh other factors.

Continuous high speed driving might be what Ferrari is thinking with the thicker grades. Are they specific in the manual as to usage conditions for each grade? The convention in Europe is that a "fast" car is defined in terms of top speed, not in 0-60 as in the American context. It would seem a lot of buyers in Europe can/will use the cars to their full potential. Brief bursts through the rev band probably doesn't stress internal temps, especially with the large oil capacity.

 

[Doug Hillary]

Hi,
Castrol's Formula "R" 10w-60 is the modern variant of one of the first readily available synthetic oils

I worked in developing this oil in the late 1970s (it was Castor based and 10w-50 then).
In 1981-2 I used it in a variety of light diesel engines (Kubota/Isuzu and Onan petrol) and got out to 3500hours (equivalent to about 175000miles) between oil changes when using a by-pass filter. It was/is a first class product

It has been available in OZ every since. It is one of the cheaper Formula "R" series oils selling in the $55-65 range (for five litres) here and is readily availabe at most discount shops. It has ACEA's A3/B3-04 and API's SL quality ratings and various Manufacturer's approvals (such as BMW) as well as Ferrari's!

Regards
Doug

[ May 01, 2005, 12:40 AM: Message edited by: Doug Hillary ]

 

[buster]

Ali, which car are you now running Redline 5w-20 in? Your results are great, but how do you think the 20wt would fair at sustained speeds of 140mph? For daily drivers not exceeding 80 mph, I think the 20's are fine.