Cold tick on startup, cleaning procedure
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Originally Posted By: i6pwr
Well, I wasn't going through oils to find one that quiets it down, just wanted to get the MMO out of there before I perform a used oil analysis.
The motor is the 4200 vortec, I6 DOHC 24V. Tonight it had a loud tick for about 5-8 ticks then the tick continued but at the lower volume but stayed for about 20 sec.
Was very noticeable that it was an oil starvation issue for the first few seconds but not sure why it's happening and i'm leaning on the side of varnish or a deposit.
The motor was quiet this morning but after work it made the tick, after sitting for 12 hrs....long day at work.
Unless your oil pump is bad(low oil pressure) then your engine does not have an oil starvation problem. Also your problem is not oil related.
Well, I wasn't going through oils to find one that quiets it down, just wanted to get the MMO out of there before I perform a used oil analysis.
The motor is the 4200 vortec, I6 DOHC 24V. Tonight it had a loud tick for about 5-8 ticks then the tick continued but at the lower volume but stayed for about 20 sec.
Was very noticeable that it was an oil starvation issue for the first few seconds but not sure why it's happening and i'm leaning on the side of varnish or a deposit.
The motor was quiet this morning but after work it made the tick, after sitting for 12 hrs....long day at work.
Unless your oil pump is bad(low oil pressure) then your engine does not have an oil starvation problem. Also your problem is not oil related.
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I agree it's probably not oil related, but if you heard it you would understand.
Upon start-up, it fires up then TICK TICK TICK TICK tick tick tick and so on for about 10-20 sec. As soon as the oil reaches the top...roughly 1-1.5 sec, the tick quietes greatly to about half the volume.
Something is causing a gap, whether the valve is sticking (doubtful) or perhaps a passage is gummed up...dunno.
The tick doesn't gradually diminish over the 20 sec, it just stops and the motor is pretty quiet for being cold after that.
Upon start-up, it fires up then TICK TICK TICK TICK tick tick tick and so on for about 10-20 sec. As soon as the oil reaches the top...roughly 1-1.5 sec, the tick quietes greatly to about half the volume.
Something is causing a gap, whether the valve is sticking (doubtful) or perhaps a passage is gummed up...dunno.
The tick doesn't gradually diminish over the 20 sec, it just stops and the motor is pretty quiet for being cold after that.
Fuel injector or belt/bearing tick on drive-belt system?
Originally Posted By: ltslimjim
Fuel injector or belt/bearing tick on drive-belt system?
Cams are chain driven, not an injector i'm fairly confident.
I will try to get a sound clip this weekend but it's under the valve cover and at the frequency of the valvetrain, not a rod or piston.
Fuel injector or belt/bearing tick on drive-belt system?
Cams are chain driven, not an injector i'm fairly confident.
I will try to get a sound clip this weekend but it's under the valve cover and at the frequency of the valvetrain, not a rod or piston.
^Okay, just had mental pics of an idler bearing making noise. No distributor shaft on this car?
Originally Posted By: i6pwr
I agree it's probably not oil related, but if you heard it you would understand.
Upon start-up, it fires up then TICK TICK TICK TICK tick tick tick and so on for about 10-20 sec. As soon as the oil reaches the top...roughly 1-1.5 sec, the tick quietes greatly to about half the volume.
Something is causing a gap, whether the valve is sticking (doubtful) or perhaps a passage is gummed up...dunno.
The tick doesn't gradually diminish over the 20 sec, it just stops and the motor is pretty quiet for being cold after that.
Like I said, you probably have a weak lifter that is bleeding off oil over time. As soon as you start the engine it takes a few seconds to load the lifter with oil. Not a problem.
I agree it's probably not oil related, but if you heard it you would understand.
Upon start-up, it fires up then TICK TICK TICK TICK tick tick tick and so on for about 10-20 sec. As soon as the oil reaches the top...roughly 1-1.5 sec, the tick quietes greatly to about half the volume.
Something is causing a gap, whether the valve is sticking (doubtful) or perhaps a passage is gummed up...dunno.
The tick doesn't gradually diminish over the 20 sec, it just stops and the motor is pretty quiet for being cold after that.
Like I said, you probably have a weak lifter that is bleeding off oil over time. As soon as you start the engine it takes a few seconds to load the lifter with oil. Not a problem.
Here's a short vid from this morning, outside temp was 34 deg.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HVTi5wF941M
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HVTi5wF941M
Originally Posted By: i6pwr
My GM 4.2 w/ 160K has been fed a healthy diet of M1 with maybe 5-6 changes of non M1. Generally when it's cold outside, I will get a lifter tick or whatever is under the valve cover...never had my face in there so I cannot accurately make a guess.
The tick will last for maybe 5 sec or up to 20 sec at times....generally 5-10 sec. This is not a piston slap for sure, it will tick them abruptly stop.
Last change was Mobil 1 High Mileage and I added about 3/4 qt of MMO. I just drained it at 2K and refilled with Pennzoil Conventional and looking for a good additive but with many avail I wanted to get some opinions.
Engine runs great, very quiet when warm and the needle is steady under a vacuum gauge. May be a small amount of varnish...not sure but after this I will perform a used oil analysis and go from there.
I'd give a qt of MMO a shot for a 3,000-4,000 mile OCI, or add a pint of Kreen for the last 1000 miles of the next OCI. If its dirt, odds are you'll clean it up. If a lifter/lifters are bad, or the cam is worn nothing is going to help. I doubt its that or you'd have the tick all the time. Make sure its not an injector tick, they make noise too.
My GM 4.2 w/ 160K has been fed a healthy diet of M1 with maybe 5-6 changes of non M1. Generally when it's cold outside, I will get a lifter tick or whatever is under the valve cover...never had my face in there so I cannot accurately make a guess.
The tick will last for maybe 5 sec or up to 20 sec at times....generally 5-10 sec. This is not a piston slap for sure, it will tick them abruptly stop.
Last change was Mobil 1 High Mileage and I added about 3/4 qt of MMO. I just drained it at 2K and refilled with Pennzoil Conventional and looking for a good additive but with many avail I wanted to get some opinions.
Engine runs great, very quiet when warm and the needle is steady under a vacuum gauge. May be a small amount of varnish...not sure but after this I will perform a used oil analysis and go from there.
I'd give a qt of MMO a shot for a 3,000-4,000 mile OCI, or add a pint of Kreen for the last 1000 miles of the next OCI. If its dirt, odds are you'll clean it up. If a lifter/lifters are bad, or the cam is worn nothing is going to help. I doubt its that or you'd have the tick all the time. Make sure its not an injector tick, they make noise too.
Originally Posted By: i6pwr
Here's a short vid from this morning, outside temp was 34 deg.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HVTi5wF941M
I am more convinved than ever it's a(one) weak lifter. Our old Ranger had that problem that started about 60K and never got worse. It was sold last year with 354K and runnin strong.
Here's a short vid from this morning, outside temp was 34 deg.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HVTi5wF941M
I am more convinved than ever it's a(one) weak lifter. Our old Ranger had that problem that started about 60K and never got worse. It was sold last year with 354K and runnin strong.
With the apparently good OCIs and quality of oil, there isn't much chance sludge, varnish, dirt or even a poltergeist is causing your issue... At 160K mi components are starting to wear, sometimes these things happen...
As already mentioned, it's likely a lifter leaking down and as long as normal maintenance is continued I doubt it will get worse...
As already mentioned, it's likely a lifter leaking down and as long as normal maintenance is continued I doubt it will get worse...
Originally Posted By: i6pwr
My GM 4.2 w/ 160K has been fed a healthy diet of M1 with maybe 5-6 changes of non M1. Generally when it's cold outside, I will get a lifter tick or whatever is under the valve cover...never had my face in there so I cannot accurately make a guess.
The tick will last for maybe 5 sec or up to 20 sec at times....generally 5-10 sec. This is not a piston slap for sure, it will tick them abruptly stop.
Last change was Mobil 1 High Mileage and I added about 3/4 qt of MMO. I just drained it at 2K and refilled with Pennzoil Conventional and looking for a good additive but with many avail I wanted to get some opinions.
Engine runs great, very quiet when warm and the needle is steady under a vacuum gauge. May be a small amount of varnish...not sure but after this I will perform a used oil analysis and go from there.
i6pwr,
I too get this same condition in my 08' Impala SS practicallly every morning and so I figure as long as I do my best to keep things working then that's all I can do. This happens to me when I have to move my car from one area to another in the garage so driving distance is no more than ten feet. In adddition I also get this occurance in my 01' Dodge Durango v-8 so this is probably an every day occurance in everyones cars from time to time.
Durango
My GM 4.2 w/ 160K has been fed a healthy diet of M1 with maybe 5-6 changes of non M1. Generally when it's cold outside, I will get a lifter tick or whatever is under the valve cover...never had my face in there so I cannot accurately make a guess.
The tick will last for maybe 5 sec or up to 20 sec at times....generally 5-10 sec. This is not a piston slap for sure, it will tick them abruptly stop.
Last change was Mobil 1 High Mileage and I added about 3/4 qt of MMO. I just drained it at 2K and refilled with Pennzoil Conventional and looking for a good additive but with many avail I wanted to get some opinions.
Engine runs great, very quiet when warm and the needle is steady under a vacuum gauge. May be a small amount of varnish...not sure but after this I will perform a used oil analysis and go from there.
i6pwr,
I too get this same condition in my 08' Impala SS practicallly every morning and so I figure as long as I do my best to keep things working then that's all I can do. This happens to me when I have to move my car from one area to another in the garage so driving distance is no more than ten feet. In adddition I also get this occurance in my 01' Dodge Durango v-8 so this is probably an every day occurance in everyones cars from time to time.
Durango
This motor is an overhead cam though, granted being a pushrod motor we can surely narrow down a lifter. My question is what in this valvetrain would get hung up?
Once this is started for the first time, there will not be any more noise until it cools down the next day. The motor still runs like the day I bought it with no change in MPG.
I agree there surely is some wear given the mileage, just not sure what to try as an additive with this particular valvetrain.
I could give MMO another try but was thinking of something either BG, Amsoil, or even the Kreen, never read up on the Kreen though.
Once this is started for the first time, there will not be any more noise until it cools down the next day. The motor still runs like the day I bought it with no change in MPG.
I agree there surely is some wear given the mileage, just not sure what to try as an additive with this particular valvetrain.
I could give MMO another try but was thinking of something either BG, Amsoil, or even the Kreen, never read up on the Kreen though.
A OHC design generally has a lash adjuster that is also the anchor for rocker assembly, it functions very similarly to a hydraulic lifter in a push rod type engine... Also some OHC engines have used a cam inside the head(not just "setting" on top) with a lifter driven directly by the cam, not much difference in this design except for the elimination of the pushrods...
Usually lash adjusters are fairly simple to replace, but not being familiar with the 4.2, I'll leave that recommendation to someone with experience with these engines... You may want to seek info from one of the forums that cater to your engine/vehicle...
Usually lash adjusters are fairly simple to replace, but not being familiar with the 4.2, I'll leave that recommendation to someone with experience with these engines... You may want to seek info from one of the forums that cater to your engine/vehicle...
Originally Posted By: i6pwr
Here's a short vid from this morning, outside temp was 34 deg.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HVTi5wF941M
Did you check the exhaust manifold bolts?
Here's a short vid from this morning, outside temp was 34 deg.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HVTi5wF941M
Did you check the exhaust manifold bolts?
Originally Posted By: 3311
Originally Posted By: i6pwr
Here's a short vid from this morning, outside temp was 34 deg.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HVTi5wF941M
Did you check the exhaust manifold bolts?
An exhaust manifold leak isn't just going to suddenly stop, plus he's stated it doesn't happen every time, unfortunately it likely has a valvetrain issue...
Originally Posted By: i6pwr
Here's a short vid from this morning, outside temp was 34 deg.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HVTi5wF941M
Did you check the exhaust manifold bolts?
An exhaust manifold leak isn't just going to suddenly stop, plus he's stated it doesn't happen every time, unfortunately it likely has a valvetrain issue...
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