I agree about the safest way to carry. However you may be misunderstanding the firing pin spring and how it works. Compressing the spring will in fact reduce the distance over which the firing pin can build up momentum to overcome the spring tension and hit the primer.
Cocked and locked 1911 discussion
- Thread starter KW
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Cocked and locked. It's worked for the last hundred years.
If you're scared, carry mace.
If you're scared, carry mace.
Carrying a 1911 cocked and locked allows for the most efficient one handed method of presenting the pistol for firing. But, it wasn't "designed" to be carried that way, it is just an option to do so. The 1911 was actually designed without a thumb safety...it was only added to the design at the request of the calvary so they could more safely handle a cocked pistol with a round in the chamber while on horseback. The original firing system design provided for a half cock that locked the sear, hammer, and trigger all - this isn't the case for series 80 systems. A hammer down on a pre series 80 system "could possibly" result in a discharged round IF the pistol was dropped on it's muzzle from (I believe) at least 5 feet. The biggest danger in carrying hammer down on a live round is getting it to that position but it can be safely done with due diligence - ALWAYS remember where it's pointed when handling.
In actuality, carrying a Glock with a round chambered is relatively equal to carrying a 1911 (that has a firing pin safety) WITHOUT the thumb safety being applied - the only difference is that the trigger's length of travel is reduced on the 1911. The 1911 has a grip safety blocking the trigger whereas the Glock has the trigger safety and they both have firing pin safeties that would be overcome when firing.
Remember that the 1911, depending on it's firing pin system, either has a true half cock (that locks it up) or a half cock intercept notch (that doesn't lock it up - trigger will still release hammer when pulled) to catch a hammer that slips from the thumb while being cocked or eased down from full cock - again, ALWAYS maintain muzzle safety.
The military (for safety) recommends carrying hammer down on an empty chamber with a loaded magazine and charging the weapon when it's use is imminent and then applying the thumb safety if it needs to be kept at the ready. Cocked and locked carry became "the way to carry it" in the 60's due to gun trainer's/writer's influence such as Colonel Cooper and while it is the most efficient way to carry the pistol - it's not the only way.
So, yep, cocked and locked just looks unsafe ... but in actuality, it's as safe as a firearm can be while loaded.
Carry it cocked and locked (or just to see, cocked and unlocked) with an empty chamber for a week to see that the hammer won't make it to the firing pin without your direct manipulation of the system - there are just too many parts that would have to fail at the same time for that to happen.
John Moses Browning really did put some thought into this pistol!
In actuality, carrying a Glock with a round chambered is relatively equal to carrying a 1911 (that has a firing pin safety) WITHOUT the thumb safety being applied - the only difference is that the trigger's length of travel is reduced on the 1911. The 1911 has a grip safety blocking the trigger whereas the Glock has the trigger safety and they both have firing pin safeties that would be overcome when firing.
Remember that the 1911, depending on it's firing pin system, either has a true half cock (that locks it up) or a half cock intercept notch (that doesn't lock it up - trigger will still release hammer when pulled) to catch a hammer that slips from the thumb while being cocked or eased down from full cock - again, ALWAYS maintain muzzle safety.
The military (for safety) recommends carrying hammer down on an empty chamber with a loaded magazine and charging the weapon when it's use is imminent and then applying the thumb safety if it needs to be kept at the ready. Cocked and locked carry became "the way to carry it" in the 60's due to gun trainer's/writer's influence such as Colonel Cooper and while it is the most efficient way to carry the pistol - it's not the only way.
So, yep, cocked and locked just looks unsafe ... but in actuality, it's as safe as a firearm can be while loaded.
Carry it cocked and locked (or just to see, cocked and unlocked) with an empty chamber for a week to see that the hammer won't make it to the firing pin without your direct manipulation of the system - there are just too many parts that would have to fail at the same time for that to happen.
John Moses Browning really did put some thought into this pistol!
Originally Posted By: greenaccord02
Cocked and locked. It's worked for the last hundred years.
If you're scared, carry mace.
Say what? Your post adds nothing to this conversation.
Cocked and locked. It's worked for the last hundred years.
If you're scared, carry mace.
Say what? Your post adds nothing to this conversation.
1WildPig, I have been carrying it since Saturday cocked and locked with a empty chamber as sort of a personal test. I have worked as normal climbing over and under cars and moving stuff around the shop and everything stays right in place so far.
Originally Posted By: KW
Originally Posted By: greenaccord02
Cocked and locked. It's worked for the last hundred years.
If you're scared, carry mace.
Say what? Your post adds nothing to this conversation.
Cocked and locked is a proven way to carry the gun safely as long as the wearer is carrying it in a safe manner. You said it scared you and your wife to have it in that condition. I think that carrying a gun that is not ready to use is a great way to get killed, so perhaps another form of self defense might suit you better.
Originally Posted By: greenaccord02
Cocked and locked. It's worked for the last hundred years.
If you're scared, carry mace.
Say what? Your post adds nothing to this conversation.
Cocked and locked is a proven way to carry the gun safely as long as the wearer is carrying it in a safe manner. You said it scared you and your wife to have it in that condition. I think that carrying a gun that is not ready to use is a great way to get killed, so perhaps another form of self defense might suit you better.
Originally Posted By: greenaccord02
Originally Posted By: KW
Originally Posted By: greenaccord02
Cocked and locked. It's worked for the last hundred years.
If you're scared, carry mace.
Say what? Your post adds nothing to this conversation.
Cocked and locked is a proven way to carry the gun safely as long as the wearer is carrying it in a safe manner. You said it scared you and your wife to have it in that condition. I think that carrying a gun that is not ready to use is a great way to get killed, so perhaps another form of self defense might suit you better.
Cool, I took it the wrong way I guess. I really like the 1911 layout, it is just taking a little while to get used to the hammer back.
Originally Posted By: KW
Originally Posted By: greenaccord02
Cocked and locked. It's worked for the last hundred years.
If you're scared, carry mace.
Say what? Your post adds nothing to this conversation.
Cocked and locked is a proven way to carry the gun safely as long as the wearer is carrying it in a safe manner. You said it scared you and your wife to have it in that condition. I think that carrying a gun that is not ready to use is a great way to get killed, so perhaps another form of self defense might suit you better.
Cool, I took it the wrong way I guess. I really like the 1911 layout, it is just taking a little while to get used to the hammer back.
Originally Posted By: 1WildPig
Say, what brand of iron are you carrying anyway??
It's a High Standard 1911 made in the Philippines. Actually seems like a nice gun and it shoots like a champ. I have some other pistols but often drift back to the 1911, I just like the way it shoots.
Say, what brand of iron are you carrying anyway??
It's a High Standard 1911 made in the Philippines. Actually seems like a nice gun and it shoots like a champ. I have some other pistols but often drift back to the 1911, I just like the way it shoots.
Originally Posted By: KW
Originally Posted By: greenaccord02
Originally Posted By: KW
Originally Posted By: greenaccord02
Cocked and locked. It's worked for the last hundred years.
If you're scared, carry mace.
Say what? Your post adds nothing to this conversation.
Cocked and locked is a proven way to carry the gun safely as long as the wearer is carrying it in a safe manner. You said it scared you and your wife to have it in that condition. I think that carrying a gun that is not ready to use is a great way to get killed, so perhaps another form of self defense might suit you better.
Cool, I took it the wrong way I guess. I really like the 1911 layout, it is just taking a little while to get used to the hammer back.
Yeah, I felt the same way about mine, but the layout is really a great one when made of the right materials at the right tolerances. No other handgun has ever felt so much like an extension of my arm. I might recommend you get the AGI Armorer's Video for the 1911 from Brownell's. It's really well done and shows you every part and function along with what the best practices are for maintenance and tolerances for inspection as well as how to understand exactly how to ask for and get your money's worth out of gunsmithing work. Even if you know your gun very well, this will help you know more and perhaps have more peace of mind.
From the armorer's course:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zqRoet23C6w&feature=related
From Troubleshooting 1911s Video
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6ZPhUBL21-U
Several other clips from various AGI videos about the 1911.
http://www.youtube.com/results?search_query=agi+1911&search_type=&aq=f
Those courses range from intermediate to advanced, but for some serious reading material, you might look for copies of the Gun Digest Book of the 1911 by Sweeney, Volumes I and II. I have both and they can also help you understand exactly what you're looking at and how best to tune your gun if necessary.
Originally Posted By: greenaccord02
Originally Posted By: KW
Originally Posted By: greenaccord02
Cocked and locked. It's worked for the last hundred years.
If you're scared, carry mace.
Say what? Your post adds nothing to this conversation.
Cocked and locked is a proven way to carry the gun safely as long as the wearer is carrying it in a safe manner. You said it scared you and your wife to have it in that condition. I think that carrying a gun that is not ready to use is a great way to get killed, so perhaps another form of self defense might suit you better.
Cool, I took it the wrong way I guess. I really like the 1911 layout, it is just taking a little while to get used to the hammer back.
Yeah, I felt the same way about mine, but the layout is really a great one when made of the right materials at the right tolerances. No other handgun has ever felt so much like an extension of my arm. I might recommend you get the AGI Armorer's Video for the 1911 from Brownell's. It's really well done and shows you every part and function along with what the best practices are for maintenance and tolerances for inspection as well as how to understand exactly how to ask for and get your money's worth out of gunsmithing work. Even if you know your gun very well, this will help you know more and perhaps have more peace of mind.
From the armorer's course:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zqRoet23C6w&feature=related
From Troubleshooting 1911s Video
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6ZPhUBL21-U
Several other clips from various AGI videos about the 1911.
http://www.youtube.com/results?search_query=agi+1911&search_type=&aq=f
Those courses range from intermediate to advanced, but for some serious reading material, you might look for copies of the Gun Digest Book of the 1911 by Sweeney, Volumes I and II. I have both and they can also help you understand exactly what you're looking at and how best to tune your gun if necessary.
I carry my 1911s with 1 in the chamber and 8 in the magazine ALWAYS. Hammer down, safety on. Obviously dont be careless with the weapon just because the safety is on.
We should also remember that unless the gun is actually in your hand, the grip safety is always on, too. That was one of it's design requirements.
If you're that worried about it, carry it cocked and locked for a week or two with no round in the chamber. I bet you'll find that when you get home at night, the hammer is still cocked and locked.
Once you have the confidence in the gun, then carry it Condition 1.
Don't carry a gun you don't trust. If a 1911 in Condition 1 scares you, get a CZ, Beretta, or a S&W 642.
Once you have the confidence in the gun, then carry it Condition 1.
Don't carry a gun you don't trust. If a 1911 in Condition 1 scares you, get a CZ, Beretta, or a S&W 642.
Originally Posted By: strat81
If you're that worried about it, carry it cocked and locked for a week or two with no round in the chamber. I bet you'll find that when you get home at night, the hammer is still cocked and locked.
Don't carry a gun you don't trust.
That's what I'm doing now, and it's all working as advertised.
If you're that worried about it, carry it cocked and locked for a week or two with no round in the chamber. I bet you'll find that when you get home at night, the hammer is still cocked and locked.
Don't carry a gun you don't trust.
That's what I'm doing now, and it's all working as advertised.
Very informative video from a Firearms Instructor who owns several 1911's, and carries one all the time.
This video covers conditions of carry of the 1911.
She gives a very through description of how the safety works, showing actual parts so you can visualize this.
Here is the link:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4AzGCX-HClc
If you have questions on her qualifications, check her other videos.
She has more training than most police officers, and most military personnel on carry of a firearm, and using it for self defense.
This video covers conditions of carry of the 1911.
She gives a very through description of how the safety works, showing actual parts so you can visualize this.
Here is the link:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4AzGCX-HClc
If you have questions on her qualifications, check her other videos.
She has more training than most police officers, and most military personnel on carry of a firearm, and using it for self defense.
I watched some of her other stuff before. She is very good at explaining things and really seems to know what she is talking about. The condition 2 thing I was doing does seem to be a flop. Looks like 1 or 3 is the way to do it.
I believe that is the best video and explanation of the workings of a model 1911 that I have ever seen. Who is that woman? She certainly knows her stuff.
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