CO2 levels in the car

Status
Not open for further replies.
S

SHOZ

Joined
Jun 28, 2003
Messages
8,397
Location
Illinois
Seeing s the other thread has been locked for politics...

Last night went out with my CO2 meter and tested the content in the car while driving with the AC in recirculate.

Base CO2 was 303ppm at the start, peek was around 1500ppm. It was around 1350 for the most part.

This is with one person and a small dog. Car interior volume is 98 cu ft. Add another 10 cubic feet for the trunk. With the CC on fresh air, low fan speed and windows up, the CO was around 550.






The original thread https://bobistheoilguy.com/forums/ubbthreads.php/topics/4477940/1
 
At what C02 level does a person start to loose responsiveness? I run rec 100% in traffic do to exhaust fumes. Thank you SHOV for the information and real data. Ed
 
what is the point of this? CO2 content in the air is meaningless unless you are talking about plant life.
 
Originally Posted By: Eddie
At what C02 level does a person start to loose responsiveness? I run rec 100% in traffic do to exhaust fumes. Thank you SHOV for the information and real data. Ed


CO2 levels don't have a negative impact on humans. CO levels do. Oxygen levels are the most important outside of CO.
 
Originally Posted By: KrisZ
For anybody that says CO2 concentration is meaningless, please read this article, posted in Shannow's thread, that is now locked.

Synopsis, yes studies have shown that high CO2 levels affect humans in a negative way. It's been known for quite some time now in the automotive world.

CO2 loevels inside car cabin


It isn't that simple. High CO2 levels only have a negative impact if it is reducing the oxygen content of the air.

CO2 is constantly sitting in your lungs. It isn't causing you harm. The only way you don't have CO2 sitting in your lungs (probably 30%+ at that) is if you are constantly doing meditation/deep breathing exercises where you are completely emptying and refilling your lungs with each breath.

CO2 is not toxic. Lack of oxygen is.
 
Hijack to the more important CO %

Don't we have L.E. around the country getting sick or dying from leaky V6 ecoboost Ford Exploders? Ive been hearing this on the radio.

I always had to deal with poor exhaust connexions in my new fords. Mustang HO. Henry Nasser accordion Ford F150 V6 bangers. Brought em back to dealer and they would do nothing (what else is new).

Have they learned how to make a tight exhaust yet
 
Last edited:
As I stated in the other thread 1000ppm is considered OK but at 3000ppm I start to feel discomfort. 4000ppm and I get a headache and breathing discomfort. I have an open flame ventless heater I use and that is why I have the CO2 meter.

The drive was over an hour.The CO2 levels went up to the 1300 range within 10 minutes.

I would assume with two people or more the level would be much higher. Cracking the window with it in recirc mode lowered the CO2 quite a bit, 800ppm range. Switching to fresh air it quickly dropped below 1000ppm.

Please leave politics out of this, though I don't see where politics got brought up in the other thread.
 
Originally Posted By: SHOZ
As I stated in the other thread 1000ppm is considered OK but at 3000ppm I start to feel discomfort. 4000ppm and I get a headache and breathing discomfort. I have an open flame ventless heater I use and that is why I have the CO2 meter.

The drive was over an hour.The CO2 levels went up to the 1300 range within 10 minutes.

I would assume with two people or more the level would be much higher. Cracking the window with it in recirc mode lowered the CO2 quite a bit, 800ppm range. Switching to fresh air it quickly dropped below 1000ppm.

Please leave politics out of this, though I don't see where politics got brought up in the other thread.



This is about science not politics. Do some basic research. Toxicity levels of CO2 happen around 40,000 ppm. The issues relate to concentrations/pressures in blood vs air. This planet has seen CO2 levels well above 1000ppm before. It is well within human tolerance.

also, in a closed off environment, increases of CO2 means reduction of oxygen. You should be monitoring the oxygen content as that is the driver of your feelings, not CO2 at these levels.
 
Last edited:
CO2 but itself will not cause harm in the concentrations we're talking about here, but it's a cheap way to measure the oxygen level drop. You're right that CO2 is not the enemy here, but in a closed car cabin, an increase in CO2 concentration means that the oxygen level dropped.
 
Originally Posted By: badtlc
Oxygen levels are the most important outside of CO.

Man has an amazing tolerance for varying levels of oxygen; he can live anywhere from sea-level to the slopes of the Himalayas.

I suspect that even at the max CO2 level that OP saw, his O2 level is nowhere near as low as what someone in Denver breathes every day of the week.

Every age has its imaginary goblins. CO2 and general air-quality are our current goblins.
 
Originally Posted By: badtlc
Originally Posted By: SHOZ
As I stated in the other thread 1000ppm is considered OK but at 3000ppm I start to feel discomfort. 4000ppm and I get a headache and breathing discomfort. I have an open flame ventless heater I use and that is why I have the CO2 meter.

The drive was over an hour.The CO2 levels went up to the 1300 range within 10 minutes.

I would assume with two people or more the level would be much higher. Cracking the window with it in recirc mode lowered the CO2 quite a bit, 800ppm range. Switching to fresh air it quickly dropped below 1000ppm.

Please leave politics out of this, though I don't see where politics got brought up in the other thread.



This is about science not politics. Do some basic research. Toxicity levels of CO2 happen around 40,000 ppm. The issues relate to concentrations/pressures in blood vs air. This planet has seen CO2 levels well above 1000ppm before. It is well within human tolerance.

also, in a closed off environment, increases of CO2 means reduction of oxygen. You should be monitoring the oxygen content as that is the driver of your feelings, not CO2 at these levels.
The other thread was closed because of politics. It wasn't me and I don't see any political post. So maybe they were deleted?
 
Originally Posted By: Tegger
Originally Posted By: badtlc
Oxygen levels are the most important outside of CO.

Man has an amazing tolerance for varying levels of oxygen; he can live anywhere from sea-level to the slopes of the Himalayas.

I suspect that even at the max CO2 level that OP saw, his O2 level is nowhere near as low as what someone in Denver breathes every day of the week.

Every age has its imaginary goblins. CO2 and general air-quality are our current goblins.
Please don't post political opinion. That is why the other thread was closed. try and stay on the subject matter of CO2 levels in a car with the reticulation mode on.
 
Originally Posted By: KrisZ
CO2 but itself will not cause harm in the concentrations we're talking about here, but it's a cheap way to measure the oxygen level drop. You're right that CO2 is not the enemy here, but in a closed car cabin, an increase in CO2 concentration means that the oxygen level dropped.

Yes, true, thanks for stating that. After reading some posts above where some folks here don't see the problems in C02 levels rising, this statement is a er...umm... 'breath of fresh air'....

Basic biology: We use oxygen. We convert oxygen 02 to C02 by burning glucose in our body and breathe it out. All that production of CO2 displaces oxygen in the air, percentage-wise. ... As O2 percent% gets lower, your lungs don't absorb as much, so your blood O2 levels drop, and your brain is not as sharp.
In fact, your mental acuity is probably somewhat linear with oxygen levels, or at least smoothly monotonic.

Note this has nothing to do with "toxicity" in a poison sense when talking about CO2, since its not poisonous.

Higher altitude effects thin out the air; its less dense, has less O2 molecules per cubic foot, which is another way to reduce O2 molecules available in a breath of air.
So the actual amount of O2 molecules in a cubic foot of air is %02 x Air Density, multiplied together, as a good approximation.

Normal oxygen percents are at 21% at all altitudes, yet the number of O2 molecules per cubic foot is less as you go up.
At 5,000 feet, the mass of O2 per cubic foot drops by -15% (-15% less molecules available).
At 10,000 feet, this is down by -30%, really a big difference and affects mental acuity and muscle function.
At 15,000 feet, this is down by -45%, starting to get nasty.
 
Last edited:
I have to modify what I was stating about CO2 toxicity. Apparently it blocks oxygen uptake more than I thought in the body, according to:

270px-Main_symptoms_of_carbon_dioxide_toxicity.svg.png
 
Originally Posted By: ARCOgraphite
Hijack to the more important CO %

Don't we have L.E. around the country getting sick or dying from leaky V6 ecoboost Ford Exploders? Ive been hearing this on the radio.

I always had to deal with poor exhaust connexions in my new fords. Mustang HO. Henry Nasser accordion Ford F150 V6 bangers. Brought em back to dealer and they would do nothing (what else is new).

Have they learned how to make a tight exhaust yet


Yes, CO seems to still be a problem in Ford Explorers.

http://www.bostonglobe.com/metro/2017/08...JkQN/story.html

Anyway, back to CO2, I went hiking years ago in the mountains of CA, I think we were in the 8-9k range in elevation. We camped out that night and were in a tent when it started to snow. I think the snow sealed up the tent and at a couple points we woke up gasping for air. I guess that was just too much CO2. We knocked the snow off the tent and went back to sleep. Happened a couple times that night.
 
It's really best discussed in terms of partial pressures especially when teferring to variable altitude, but let's leave things simple at 1 atmosphere pressure (sea,level) for now and look at a lityle math.

1% = 10,000 ppm so the chart in prior post green color is at 10,000 ppm, not 1,000
Other colors are at correspondingly high concentrations

My industrial experience is Grade D compressed air is the minimum requirement for SCBA systems typical for use by emergency responders and working around various chemicals. Note this is for use during physical exertion, not just sedentary physical activity like driving or riding in a motor vehicle.

Grade D breathing air allows 1,000 ppm CO2 = 0.10% but note allowable CO in Grade D breathing air is 10 ppm maximum = 0.001%

https://www.osha.gov/dte/library/respirators/presentation/slide61.html

Also note allowable oxygen (O2) concentration is as low as 19.5%, remembering each 1,000 ppm of CO2 only dilutes everything else (O2, N2, etc) by a total sum of 0.1%. Taking a typical ratio of 21/79 O2 / N2 percentage, and multiplying that by 0.1 % (1,000 ppm) yields 0.027 % or 270 ppm. So each 1,000 ppm of CO2 only decreases the O2 content of air by 270 ppm.

CO is the real issue here - much lyke Brylcream, "A little dab'll do ya!"
 
Last edited:
I live in the middle of corn fields. One year I started taking CO2 readings outside for the summer. It was always lowest right before sunset and highest just after dawn. Plants use CO2 during sunlight and give off O2, at night it reverses as the plants are using stored sugar for life after dark.
 
Originally Posted By: SHOZ
I have an open flame ventless heater I use and that is why I have the CO2 meter.

The drive was over an hour.The CO2 levels went up to the 1300 range within 10 minutes.



I think you are confused, you should be worrying about Carbon MONoxide or CO not carbon dioxide. Safe CO2 threshold level ~ 10,000 PPM is 1 percent which is no effect.

Get a Carbon Monoxide meter if you have a non vented open flame heater! That sounds extremely dangerous.

You don't have a teenage girl texting you telling you to get back in the car, do you?

Be careful out there
smile.gif
- Ken
 
Last edited:
Status
Not open for further replies.

Similar threads

Hermann
Day Trippin' in the Maverick
Replies
15
Views
795
Hermann
S
The modern collector car market, and cars that are victim of said market
2
Replies
34
Views
4K
MSCH
Cujet
An example of inflation in the automotive world.
2
Replies
32
Views
1K
Hillbilly Deluxe
Nick1994
Baking Cookies in the Car - 4.0
Replies
16
Views
752
vavavroom
O
The company cars of American Greeting Corp., and the bad things we did to them, 1980-2013
Replies
4
Views
2K
earlyre
Back
Top