Classic and Muscle car oil.

MolaKule

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Iowegia - USA
Recently there have been a number of discussions on oils for muscle cars and classic (show) cars. Which, BTW, leads me to a marketing question. Would there be any interest in a specially formulated HDMO for Classic CArs and Muscle cars, say a 10W40 or 20W40? Say with a SD to SH type additive package?
 
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East of IGO
Molakule, why the latest rating seems to protect well and 10w30 15w40 would cover all application. Using synthetics would cover the coldest or the long drain possiblities.I'm not it's needed ,but for marketing ,might be interesting like the not for street use oil post, I want some just because.
 
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5,069
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Saratoga, NY
Perhaps, 'Kule old buddy, you might state for the record why you think the current offerings are lacking ... or at least not ideal for classic cars. Why not one of the fleet oils in 15W40 ... or even a gas/diesel oil in straight 30? What about the high mileage oils like Max-Life, Pennzoil High Mileage, etc ...? What about all the different mineral 20W50s available? How about Amalie's arsenal of high quality straight weights? I assume you are looking for a high, high TBN without too many powerful detergents and a whopping anti-corrosion package? Am I at least warm? [Confused] --- Bror Jace
 

MolaKule

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Bror, You are very warm. Most modern oils are weak in anti-corrosion/anti-rust additives for this application and they seem to be very diveregent. I.E., you have the weak (SL) ones on the general automotive side and the heavy duties on the diesel/fleet side. While the HDMO's might suffice, they still lack certain additives for long term storage. Many people don't want to use the extra heavy oils nor the thin and low additive OTC oils; they want to use the 10W20W40's or 20W40's, or whathave you. I am not looking for a currently available oil.
 
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263
Location
DFW, TX
I'm not too concerned with the anit-corrosion stuff, but I'd love a 20w40 non-cat oil just because of the climate I live in for my non-cat equipped car. 76 does make a couple of "custom" oils which are available in 30 and 40 wt which seem to be targeted for the classic cars.
 
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Location
Maine
Delvac 1300S or Delo 400 seems to be a reccomended oil for Muscle Cars, especially Big blocks Ect... I will be running one of the two when my car comes out of storage pretty soon. Who here has Muscle Cars, and What kind? -Pont
 

MolaKule

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quote:
Someone mentioned flat tappet cams. Are the new oils bad for these applications? Me and my 327 would like to know!
I believe most oils have the necessary Friction Modifiers to take care of the flat tappet cam systems. For Anti-Wear additives, I prefer an oil that has both ZDDP and Moly.
 
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352
Location
Ontario, Canada.
Do you think that with these references to a "clunker" law that I've heard (real or imagined), that any company would make any great effort towards a classic specific oil product? I've been searching out an oil for my restored 70 Mach 1 almost since I started my restoration....wanted to treat the motor right! Been using a 10/30 Kendal oil but thought that it was becoming too thin at temp. Am now using Mobil Delvac 1300 Super 15/40 and am considering Redlines 10/40 synthetic offering after a few more miles. Not sure, are there advantages to switching to a synthetic for this class of vehicle? Due to the low yearly mileage dictated here by the winters, I would have almost 6 months of non use. Maybe an ideal situation for a synthetic product? I was considering the installation of an oil cooler, right or wrong. My oil comes out steaming at an oil change....not an indication necessarily of the need for a cooler I know, but taking heat out of the engine couldn't hurt, one would assume and would help the oil do its job of removing heat. I intend on taking a few temp readings before deciding on a cooler or not.
 
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OR
What I'd like to see is an oil designed for extended drain intervals as measured by time vs. mileage. It's a waist to change any oil based on a 1 yr. time limit even though that oil might have very few miles on it given the nature of driving muscle/collectors cars. I contacted Redline and they did state that their synthetics should be changed annually regardless of mileage. Another person on this forum noted the same thing due to Esters being hygroscopic in nature. An oil with a long shelf life in the crankcase would be worthwhile.
quote:
Originally posted by MolaKule: Recently there have been a number of discussions on oils for muscle cars and classic (show) cars. Which, BTW, leads me to a marketing question. Would there be any interest in a specially formulated HDMO for Classic CArs and Muscle cars, say a 10W40 or 20W40? Say with a SD to SH type additive package?
 
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1,908
Location
Fort Worth, TX
MolaKule, glad to see the topic broached. I'm involved with a bunch of guys driving old Chryslers, a handful only are quarter-milers, and the rest are either 3-season cruisers or long-distance runners. As you are undoubtedly aware of the HOT ROD POWER TOUR there is considerable media coverage of, and increased participation in, long distance affairs. Plenty of these guys are still running carb'd engines without electronic controls. And with the recent formulations that "appear" to have lost some protective additives from OTC motor oil for non-roller cammed engines, I would say that there is a slow awareness building of the need for -- as with Harley -- motor oils developed for the many thousands of these cars (as your thoughts would indicate). For myself, the next motor for the old Newport will be carb'd, and oil is a predicament. I've run M1 15W-50, and have been studying what I can to determine what will be a better choice for an annually-changed oil (6-10,000 miles anticipated)(not that there is anything wrong with my current choice as experience with some near-disasters has indicated). High heat, heavy load, etc, for this -- when loaded for a trip -- 5000-lb, high-geared car. I know of a number of oils I could choose that would do an excellent job, but the point to your inquiry is ideal: A formulation designed specifically for engines of the late 1950's to, what, early 1980's ? Once I've got an income going again, I plan to sample the oil currently in use in the car, try the flush method you outlined, run a little Auto-RX through it afterwards, use some Fuel Power and Lube Control, Neutra . . in other words, try to get something of an experiential-based handle on rejuvenating an old motor, then see what works well prior to building a new one a few years from now. Info I'd be sharing here and with my fellow enthusiasts. Can't do it at present, but you're welcome to PM me and keep me in mind as you proceed with this idea. I am going to shake loose the funds to send Bob a pair of filters for his OF Study as part of this beginning investigation. And use Terry's services in analysis as soon as I can get started.
 
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Shippensburg, PA
Valvoline VR1 might be a good choice for older cars, as it still has more zinc than the average SL oil. Any of the 15W-40 oils look OK too. Someone mentioned flat tappet cams. Are the new oils bad for these applications? Me and my 327 would like to know! [Wink]
 
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352
Location
Ontario, Canada.
quote:
Originally posted by PontTransAm1978: Delvac 1300S or Delo 400 seems to be a reccomended oil for Muscle Cars, especially Big blocks Ect... I will be running one of the two when my car comes out of storage pretty soon. Who here has Muscle Cars, and What kind? -Pont
....Owner of a restored 1970 Mach 1/351C4V and am running the Mobil Delvac 1300 Super now. May switch to Redline 10/40 synthetic later on.
 
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Location
Alabama
Molakule, what about one of the synthetic motorcycle oils currently available? Most are in the heavier weights you mention, and have an API rating of SJ.
 
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5,069
Location
Saratoga, NY
I don’t want to be considered the penultimate nattering nabob of negativism, but amidst the discussion of the properties an ideal muscle/collector car oil should have, there are numerous reasons why it isn’t terribly likely we’ll see one anytime soon: The marketing alone would either make or break the oil … probably the latter. People are already very brand specific when they buy oil … except people who buy the cheapest [email protected] on the shelf … and this certainly is not who this premium line of oils would be aimed at. This oil would probably cost between $2-3 per quart assuming a decent base oil (Group II+ ?) and super-premium additive package. Feel free to expound on the price structure, ’Kule, I know you have some specific numbers. Anyway, even among the targeted folks, it would probably be an uphill battle to persuade cynical jerks such as myself that this oil formulation of yours is really different and not just the same old goo squirted into a fancy shmancy bottle … but with an inflated price tag. This is the kicker. You’d have to persuade them that the oil they’ve used all their lives isn’t really good enough (despite their experiences that it has been, for the most part) nor are currently available fleet oils, specialty synthetics or the latest group of high-mileage formulas. It’s one thing for you to convince me of the formulation’s uniqueness, but quite another to win over “Joe Fourbarrel.” [Bang Head] The back of your bottle could feature thoughtful text which rivals the Magna Carta for word count but a lot of people would still not be convinced. Unfortunately, not a lot of people would want to read that many words all in one place. [Roll Eyes] Uphill battle indeed. [Frown] Now, having just pi$$ed on this parade, ’Kule, did you have different oils in mind for cars of the 50s and 60s which are purely “classics” (gently driven) versus the high-horsepower toys from that era and later? Seems to me that an ideal oil for a 1955 Thunderbird driven infrequently on the weekends would be very different from that blended for an LS-6 Chevelle taken to the drag strip a couple times each year. I see it as a “storage oil” versus a “performance oil” issue. Oils for cars before that muscle era (early 50s and pre-war) might require a different formulation entirely as poured bearings are susceptible to erosion from modern additive packages … especially detergents, I believe. And the oils you have in mind for late 50s, 60s and later vintage hot rods would probably be loaded with that stuff, yes? Still, if you marketed it right and targeted affluent customers and the shops which cater to them, you might just have a successful niche product. [I dont know] But, you’d have to market it yourself as most of the big petro-chemical boys probably wouldn’t want a product scavenging their existing sales. --- Bror Jace
 
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